In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda unpack the often overlooked power of Project, Program, and Operations Managers (PMs), the PMs who hold organizations together behind the scenes. As companies cut budgets, these critical roles are frequently the first to go. However, eliminating the very people who create clarity, enable execution, and manage complexity can have long-term consequences.

This episode defines the distinctions between PM roles and highlights the invisible, high-impact work they do, like change management, stakeholder alignment, and process improvement. It challenges the myth that PMs are just about checklists. Indra and Amanda also share how these roles are evolving, the communities shifting the conversation, and why investing in strong PMs is investing in your company’s ability to deliver.

Useful Links:

• Generalist World: https://www.generalist.world/
• Designops Assembly: https://www.linkedin.com/company/designops-assembly
• Levels of Program & Operations Management: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/17C_0-ITv4Sh3baLtnILEgImAEftDnd1uUjHo4Hpycss/edit?usp=sharing
• The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback

Sometimes it takes an outsider to say what everyone on the inside is thinking but can’t express. In this episode, Indra and Amanda unpack the value and complexity of bringing in consultants, agencies, and subject matter experts to say the quiet thing out loud. They explore how power dynamics, organizational culture, and fear of professional consequences can keep internal voices silent and why external perspectives can cut through the noise.

Through real-world examples from their careers, they highlight:

• The benefits of outsider objectivity and “fresh eyes”
• When and how to bring in external voices for maximum impact
• The risks and resentments that can arise in these dynamics
• Practical tips for using consultants without eroding team trust.

Useful Links:

• The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback

In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda dive into the surprisingly powerful world of icebreakers, those sometimes awkward, sometimes delightful moments that set the tone for team connection. Whether you're leading a virtual kickoff, hosting a new hire orientation, or just trying to get humans to look each other in the eyes, the right icebreaker can ease social anxiety, build rapport, and foster inclusive environments.

They explore:

• Why icebreakers matter (even for well-established teams)
• What makes an icebreaker effective, and what makes it flounder
• Tips for adapting to different personalities, cultures, and formats
• Their favorite (and least favorite) icebreakers
• How to avoid common pitfalls and keep it purposeful

If you're leading teams or planning meetings, this one's for you. It’s all about creating small moments that invite human connection, without forcing it.

Useful Links:

• Where Should We Begin - A Game of Stories Pro tip: remove the NSFW cards https://game.estherperel.com/products/where-should-we-begin-a-game-of-stories-2nd-edition
• We’re Not Really Strangers https://www.werenotreallystrangers.com/
• Be Plucky - 1:1 Cards Pro tip: The Mentor pack is Indra’s favorite for ice breakers About the cards: https://www.beplucky.com/category/11cards/ Buy the cards: https://shop.beplucky.com/
• So… a collection of questions for deeper discussions https://www.socards.org/
• Creative Sprint Card Deck Can be leveraged for icebreakers; especially good for creative teams https://www.anotherlimitedrebellion.com/the-creative-sprint-card-deck
• Gamestorming Great resource for frameworks for business problem solving. Some can be simplified rather easily Site: https://gamestorming.com/ Book: https://a.co/d/hobgwn2
• The Messy Middle Matters Merch shop.themessymiddlematters.com
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback