In this episode of The Product Design for Learning Podcast, host Greg Arthur delves into the nuances of production with Matt Ash, founder of Changeably and a seasoned expert in learning design. Together, they explore how to streamline production processes while maintaining creativity and quality, even when faced with challenging projects like compliance training. Matt shares lessons from his career, including award-winning projects and insights on balancing innovation with client expectations.

Matt Ash is a consultant, strategist, and founder of Changeably. With a background in learning design, Matt has spearheaded creative, award-winning projects, including films recognized at the Cannes Corporate Film Festival and New York Film Festival. He is an advocate for using agile methodologies in learning design to improve efficiency and elevate content quality.

• Balancing Creativity and Structure: Production thrives on creative freedom but demands clear scope, deadlines, and budget to avoid pitfalls.
• Client Collaboration: Effective communication and stakeholder involvement at every stage are key to navigating changes and ensuring alignment with project goals.
• Agile Production: Iterative approaches, rooted in discovery and regular review, can prevent scope creep and enhance output quality.
• Challenging Compliance Norms: Even compliance projects can be engaging and innovative when approached with an audience-focused mindset.

Matt shared his journey from creating early-stage e-learning to scaling an agency team and pioneering agile methodologies. His production philosophy focuses on consistency, audience-centric creativity, and aligning with business goals.

Matt discussed the importance of giving filmmakers, developers, and designers creative freedom while aligning their outputs with project goals. This approach fosters innovation even in traditionally rigid fields like compliance.

Using an audience-centric approach, Matt transformed compliance content into compelling narratives, earning prestigious awards. His work exemplifies how purpose-driven storytelling can elevate even the most mundane subjects.

Matt emphasized the need for clearly defined scope, deadlines, and budgets. He advised conducting a robust discovery phase and identifying key goals to prevent misalignment during production.

Flexibility and open communication are crucial. Matt shared how referencing agreed-upon goals and involving all stakeholders early on helps mitigate costly scope creep.

Matt recommended following the same structured processes you advise clients to use—pausing to reflect, sharing challenges, and seeking alternative perspectives to resolve issues effectively.

Greg introduces Matt Ash and the episode’s focus on the art and science of production in learning design.

Matt recounts his career highlights, including agile experimentation and managing award-winning creative teams.

The shift from dull compliance content to engaging, award-winning films is explored.

Matt shares...

In this episode of the Product Design for Learning Podcast, host Greg Arthur sits down with Jess Andrews, a seasoned learning and development professional with experience on both the agency and in-house sides of the table. Jess shares insights into the nuanced relationships between agencies and internal teams, the challenges of making an impact in learning and development (L&D), and how to foster collaboration for successful projects.

Jess Andrews

Jess is a learning and development expert who recently transitioned to an in-house role at Multiverse after an impactful career working agency-side. She brings a wealth of experience in managing creative projects, building strong client relationships, and implementing innovative L&D solutions.

• Logistical Support: Small teams often need help with scalability and quick turnarounds.
• Creativity and Industry Expertise: Agencies bring fresh ideas, innovative solutions, and cross-industry insights.

• Agency Work: Offers end-to-end control and responsibility but can be overwhelming due to multitasking.
• In-House Work: Requires letting go of control in some areas and focusing on influencing internal stakeholders.

• Clear Communication: Regular check-ins and transparent discussions about goals and challenges.
• Relationship Building: Understanding each other's work styles and stress points fosters collaboration.
• Alignment on Goals: Both parties must be clear about the ultimate objectives to avoid misaligned priorities.

• Misalignment on goals or poor initial scoping can derail projects.
• Agencies need to balance challenging their clients with respecting internal constraints.

Greg Arthur introduces the podcast and welcomes Jess Andrews to discuss the relationship between internal teams and agencies.

Jess explains the dual reasons of logistical support and creative innovation for seeking external help.

Jess shares her experiences adjusting to the in-house mindset and managing internal stakeholders.

Discussion on the importance of understanding communication styles, stressors, and shared goals.

Jess highlights the role of agencies in helping organizations achieve quick, measurable outcomes.

Exploration of how poor scoping and internal biases can undermine a project’s success.

Jess and Greg share strategies for reconciling conflicting recommendations between teams.

Jess offers practical advice for strengthening collaboration and overcoming challenges.

Jess speculates on evolving dynamics, including potential synergies with contractors and the growing marriage of design and learning.

The Product Design for Learning Podcast delves into the art and science of designing impactful learning solutions. Each episode features industry...

In this episode of the Product Design For Learning Podcast, host Greg Arthur sits down with Patrick Mullarkey, Senior Leadership Development Manager at Staffbase, to discuss the pivotal role of Minimum Viable Products (MVPs) in the product design process. From idea validation to scalability, Patrick shares his expertise in creating learning strategies that drive meaningful outcomes. This engaging conversation highlights the importance of feedback, iteration, and humility in both product design and leadership development.

Patrick Mullarkey is the Senior Leadership Development Manager at Staffbase and an accomplished learning and leadership professional. With over 12 years of experience, he specializes in designing strategies that empower leaders and teams to excel. Passionate about bridging the gap between concept and execution, Patrick brings a wealth of knowledge on MVPs and their role in fostering innovation.

• MVPs as Testing Grounds: MVPs are essential for moving ideas from theory to practice, allowing teams to validate concepts and uncover user needs.
• The Value of Feedback: Accepting constructive criticism and iterating on it leads to better, user-aligned solutions.
• Scaling with MVPs: By testing early, teams can address scalability issues and resource requirements before full implementation.
• Leadership Training Through MVPs: Creating impactful, emotionally engaging scenarios in leadership programs is key to fostering behavioral change.

How would you summarize the MVP phase?

MVPs are a critical "moment of truth," transitioning ideas into practical tests to validate whether they solve real user problems.

What are examples of good and bad MVPs?

• Good: Quickly sketching ideas for immediate feedback and collaboration.
• Bad: Overly polished prototypes that discourage user engagement or fail to address alignment issues early.

How basic can an MVP be?

An MVP should go beyond static presentations to interactive prototypes that allow users to experience and engage with the concept.

Why is an MVP phase essential?

Without MVPs, teams risk wasting resources on unvalidated solutions. MVPs provide clarity on direction, scalability, and feasibility.

How do you incorporate leadership development into MVPs?

Using scenarios that evoke emotional responses helps participants practice skills in a realistic, impactful way, leading to better retention and application.

What if an MVP fails?

Failure in MVPs isn’t a setback but a learning opportunity. Acting on feedback and having a clear plan for the next steps builds trust and ensures progress.

What tools or advice can help with MVPs?

• Embrace ambiguity and view it as a sign of progress.
• Focus on the process rather than the final product.
• Use frameworks that prioritize iterative feedback and flexibility.

Greg introduces the episode and guest Patrick Mullarkey, setting the stage for a deep dive into MVPs.

Patrick explains the role of MVPs in bridging the gap between concepts and practical application.

Patrick shares lessons from both successful and less effective MVPs, emphasizing the importance of alignment and feedback.

The discussion highlights challenges like over-polished...

In this episode of the Product Design for Learning Podcast, host Greg Arthur is joined by Toby Kheng to discuss the provocative topic, "The End of L&D." They explore the challenges, limitations, and future possibilities of Learning and Development (L&D) as it currently operates within organisations. Toby argues for a systemic overhaul, where L&D evolves into a more holistic "employee experience design" function, integrating insights from HR, internal communications, and beyond.

Key themes include the role of data, the value of product and service design in learning, and the imperative to break down silos for more effective and engaging employee solutions.

Toby Kheng

With over 14 years in L&D, Toby is a thought leader passionate about transforming organisational learning. He co-founded Freeformers, focusing on innovative, human-centred approaches to employee experience design. Toby’s expertise spans L&D, internal communications, and organisational strategy.

L&D often functions in a silo, designing training that validates its existence rather than addressing broader organisational needs. This narrow focus leads to duplication, inefficiency, and missed opportunities to impact engagement, productivity, and profitability.

• Treat employment as a product, designing for the entire employee journey.
• Borrow frameworks from customer experience design, such as human-centred design and design thinking.
• Break down silos between HR, internal communications, and recruitment to create cohesive employee experiences.

Toby highlights the need for consistent, meaningful data collection across departments to inform decision-making. Without integrated insights from recruitment, HR, and internal comms, L&D operates in an informational vacuum.

Getting stakeholders like HR, recruitment, and communications into one room can reveal overlaps, reduce duplication, and spark innovative solutions. The future of L&D lies in its ability to lead this integration.

• By 2030: Incremental improvements with AI and tech adoption but largely within the current framework.
• By 2040: Transformation driven by small-to-medium businesses adopting holistic employee experience models, influencing larger corporations to follow suit.

Greg introduces the podcast and Toby, setting the stage for the discussion on the potential "end" of L&D.

Toby shares his critiques of traditional L&D models and the limitations of siloed functions.

Greg and Toby debate whether the future of L&D is a gradual evolution or a complete overhaul.

Toby explains how frameworks like human-centred design and the double diamond can transform learning initiatives.

How can L&D leverage data from across the business to create better solutions?

In this episode of Product Design for Learning, host Greg Arthur talks with Bo Duery, Impact Lead at Lepaya, about the pivotal role of data in designing and measuring learning programs. Bo shares insights from his journey from chemical engineering to Learning & Development (L&D), discussing why data should be an integral part of the design process. From setting actionable goals to using qualitative and quantitative methods, Bo shares strategies to help L&D professionals gather, analyze, and leverage data effectively.

Name: Bo Duery

Title: Impact Lead at Lepaya

Background: Bo’s career began in chemical engineering and operational improvement before transitioning into L&D, where he emphasizes data-driven decision-making for soft skills training and performance enhancement. His approach combines analytical rigor with empathy for the learner experience, advocating for data that both informs and inspires impactful learning solutions.

• Understanding Data’s Role: Data isn’t just numbers; it’s a tool for deeper insights into learner needs and program effectiveness.
• The Value of Observation: Observing people in their work environments provides context beyond raw data, uncovering practical challenges and learning gaps.
• Setting Realistic Goals: Establishing three key levels—organizational goals, audience needs, and program specifics—ensures clear alignment from the start.
• Balancing Qualitative and Quantitative Data: Combining surveys and interviews creates a balanced view, capturing both measurable outcomes and nuanced experiences.
• Iterative Analysis: Regular reflection on data helps teams adapt quickly, making data analysis a continuous, rather than a one-time, process.
• Using Gut Feeling Cautiously: While instincts can be valuable, they should be backed by data, especially in team settings where opinions vary.

Bo shares his journey from operational improvement in industries like manufacturing and healthcare to his current role in L&D. He discusses how his experiences underscored the importance of tracking and measuring performance, which led him to advocate for data-informed learning strategies.

Bo describes data as the investigative phase in design, where stakeholders align on questions, gather evidence, and distill insights. He emphasizes that data is essential in building a strong foundation, guiding teams before solutions are even considered.

Bo recommends starting with a clear understanding of organizational goals, the audience’s needs, and program objectives. He advises a tiered approach that explores organizational impact, individual behaviors, and specific program details, using both qualitative and quantitative methods for a complete view.

Bo emphasizes the value of in-person observation, shadowing, and direct interaction with learners to contextualize data. He advocates for exploring qualitative insights before relying solely on quantitative metrics, balancing the numbers with real-world context.

Bo advises balancing data collection with time and budget constraints. He suggests that confidence in presenting findings, especially to...

In this episode of the Product Design for Learning Podcast, host Greg Arthur speaks with Arash Mazanani, a dynamic learning leader from Aggreko, about the critical Understand Phase in product design, particularly in the context of learning solutions. They dive into the importance of this phase, which involves thoroughly exploring problems and defining requirements before moving into solution-building. Arash shares his insights on how to guide stakeholders, ask the right questions, and ensure that learning products meet both business objectives and employee needs.

Arash Rezeai-Mazanani is a learning professional with over a decade of experience in FTSE 100 and private equity companies. He specialises in leadership development, global transformation, and human-centred design. His approach centres on experimentation and disruptive thinking to create meaningful, business-aligned solutions that address employee challenges.

• The Understand Phase serves as a North Star, helping guide teams by clarifying project goals and focusing efforts.
• Asking the right questions during this phase is critical to uncovering the real problem behind requests.
• Arash stresses the importance of curiosity and using techniques like the Toyota "5 Whys" to dig deep into stakeholders' needs.
• Starting with what people need to do rather than what they need to know ensures that learning solutions are practical and impactful.
• Stakeholder management is key: defining who should be involved and why helps streamline projects and avoid late-stage derailments.
• Don’t rush the Understand Phase; it's vital to get a comprehensive understanding before moving to the next phase.

Arash explains how everyone has a "swanky" version of their job title but emphasises the daily challenges professionals face, including doubt and striving for improvement.

Arash describes the Understand Phase as a guiding force that provides direction and clarity. Without defining the problem, projects risk scope creep or lack of focus.

Arash emphasises curiosity and asking lots of questions to really get to the heart of the problem. Understanding assumptions and the true drivers behind requests is essential.

Arash advises avoiding this by ensuring key stakeholders are involved from the start. He shares strategies for addressing late-stage interventions if they occur.

Arash discusses the importance of identifying stakeholders with clear roles and responsibilities. Keeping stakeholder groups tight helps avoid unnecessary delays and misalignment.

Arash stresses the importance of asking whether all aspects of the problem have been fully explored, using the "think, feel, do" model to make sure no stone is left unturned.

Arash suggests encouraging stakeholders to share all their ideas upfront, then parking those ideas until the appropriate phase. This allows for a more focused problem-solving approach.

Arash recommends staying curious, enjoying the journey, and making the Understand Phase a non-negotiable...