On the podcast, we talk with Ryan about the risk of ad creative concentration, how to reach older, high-value demographics, and why the ultimate KPI is revenue.

Key Takeaways:

🛠️ A unified roadmap eliminates silos - Operating with one shared roadmap ensures alignment across product, marketing, and engineering, promoting collaboration and agility.

💡 Monetization might require more than just subscriptions - Post-IDFA, blending subscriptions with ads and one-time purchases maximizes revenue and reaches non-subscribers.

📺 TV and radio ads still build trust - Older audiences trust TV more than digital ads. A diversified media mix and real-time tracking can make these channels highly effective.

📊 Creative testing prevents costly surprises - Diversifying creative assets across platforms reduces risk and ensures consistent ad performance, even when policies change.

🎯 Empathy boosts customer loyalty in niche markets - High-touch, personal responses to customer feedback—especially in sensitive sectors—can build trust and long-term loyalty.

About Guest

👨‍💻 Co-founder and CTO at Pray.com — an app with a mission to grow faith, cultivate community, and leave a legacy of helping others through faith-based content and community-building features.

👥 Ryan Beck is driven by innovation in technology for the faith space, successfully navigating the complexities of building digital platforms that resonate with older, high-value demographics while maintaining exceptional retention rates.

💡 "We saw a space that was underserved, where technology could bridge the gap between faith organizations and their communities, making faith more accessible in the digital age.”

👋 LinkedIn

Resources

• Pray.com

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• David Barnard - @drbarnard
• Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
• RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
• SubClub - @SubClubHQ

Subscribe to the podcast → https://www.subclub.co

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• David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnard
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Episode Highlights:

[00:57] Digitizing faith: Pray.com’s mission to modernize faith organizations with digital platforms.
[02:49] Better together: The challenges and benefits of building a platform for diverse faiths with shared goals.
[04:47] Generation gap: Addressing tech adoption and user retention challenges with older demographics.
[06:47] Traditional values: How Pray.com used TV and radio ads to reach older, high-value users.
[09:16] Say your prayers: The devotional content that strengthened Pray.com’s user engagement and retention.
[11:52] Keeping the faith: Introducing subscription models without losing the trust of a faith-driven community.
[19:59] Lessons in diversification: The risks of relying too heavily on a single ad creative.
[31:08] Faith meets tech: Blending technology with spirituality to create accessible digital content for all.
[41:26] Data-driven decisions: How the Pray.com team optimized their TV and digital ad strategies for maximum impact.

On the podcast: effectively scaling support for an app, why the time to first response is so important, and why you should treat support more like a concierge experience.

Key Takeaways:

💡 Personalized customer support is a competitive advantage - Eli emphasizes that providing fast, personal responses to customers sets brands apart from competitors. Even in a world of increasing automation, building a concierge-like experience can boost customer loyalty.

🤖 AI and human support can work in harmony - Eli explains how Captions blends AI-driven automation with human agents, allowing the support team to focus on more complex customer needs while AI handles repetitive tasks, creating a seamless experience.

⏳ Speed matters: Time to first response is key - Captions prides itself on a 58-second average response time, which Eli believes is critical to keeping customers satisfied and preventing churn. Quick responses signal that the company is engaged and ready to help.

📊 Building customers for life through proactive support - Eli shares Captions’ philosophy of nurturing “customers for life” by going beyond just resolving issues. Sharing customer success stories with the team helps build a culture focused on long-term user satisfaction.

🌐 Scaling with localization and 24/7 support - Captions serves users globally by providing 24/7 support and localized services, ensuring that customers in every market receive timely, effective assistance regardless of their language or region.

About Guest:

👨‍💻 Head of Customer Experience at Captions, an AI-powered video creation and editing app designed to help users tell better stories through seamless video content.

👥 Eli is passionate about scaling customer support with a focus on personal, concierge-level experiences that build long-term customer loyalty, rather than simply deflecting inquiries with automation.

💡 "Even if we don't resolve their issue right away, providing a fast, empathetic response builds trust and shows our users that we're here to support them—turning a quick interaction into a lasting connection."

👋 LinkedIn

Resources:

• Captions website

Follow us on X:

• David Barnard - @drbarnard
• Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
• RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
• SubClub - @SubClubHQ

Episode Highlights - Eli

[3:18] Don’t just deflect: Why support isn’t just about reducing tickets—it’s about creating a concierge-like experience.

[8:26] Support as a moat: Great customer support can be your competitive edge, especially when users are comparing similar apps.

[12:15] Hiring right: How curiosity and embracing change are key traits for building a top-tier support team.

[16:44] The AI edge: Blending AI and human agents to enhance, not replace, the customer experience.

[21:22] Scaling globally: How Captions offers 24/7 support across different time zones and languages.

[27:50] Community roots: The role that platforms like Discord can play in early-stage customer feedback and feature development.

[34:10] Docs and AI: Keeping documentation up to date is crucial for effective AI-powered support.

[41:35] Turn feedback into features: Captions' approach to quickly implementing user feedback to create loyal customers.

On the podcast: the rebound of consumer subscription valuations and investor interest, how to generate Net Revenue Retention in consumer, and why you should pinpoint where your app sits on Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs.

Key Takeaways:

📈 The subscription app industry is rebounding in 2024 - After setbacks in 2022 and 2023, surviving companies are now leaner, more focused, and showing strong profitability and retention. This resurgence is reflected in both private transactions and public valuations, signaling positive momentum.

💡 Net Revenue Retention (NRR) is achievable in consumer apps - Top-performing apps boost NRR by stabilizing churn and driving revenue growth through price increases, family plans, and premium features. The key is delivering ongoing value to loyal users while maintaining strong retention.

🎯 Maslow's Hierarchy of Subscription Needs offers a roadmap for retention - Successful apps align with user passions by addressing needs like safety (e.g., Life360) or self-actualization (e.g., Calm). Integrating features like leaderboards and community functions deepens user engagement and fosters long-term loyalty.

🛡 Platform threats like Apple's "Sherlocking" can be overcome with specialization - Apps that go deep in their verticals (e.g., Flo or AllTrails) offer premium, differentiated experiences that platform-native features can’t replicate. Innovation and specialization are key to thriving despite competition from OS-level features.

🚀 Flo’s success shows the power of retention and long-term engagement - Flo’s $200M raise and $1B+ valuation were driven by its freemium model and strong user retention across life stages. By building long-term relationships with users, Flo has positioned itself as a leader in the female health space.

About the Guest:

👨‍💻 Technology investment banker and partner at GP Bullhound.

💵 Eric is passionate about providing advice and capital to consumer subscription software (CSS) businesses.

👋 LinkedIn

Resources:

• GP Bullhound website
• 2024 Consumer Subscription Software (CSS) Report — GP Bullhound

Follow us on X:

• David Barnard - @drbarnard
• Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
• RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
• Sub Club - @SubClubHQ

Episode Highlights

[4:32] The Rule of 40: A good rule of thumb for correlating your business’s trading value with your growth rate and profitability.

[9:10] Rising tide: Successful app businesses like Flo are part of a recent wave of mergers and acquisitions in the CSS industry.

[15:39] Land and expand: How consumer subscription services are improving net revenue retention (NRR) with their existing users.

[23:15] Sherlocked: The threat of Apple and Google releasing new platform features that compete with niche subscription apps.

[31:52] Law and order: How app business owners and investors are thinking about new regulations like the Digital Markets Act (DMA).

On the podcast: The benefits of building something you personally care about, how to balance user feedback with product intuition, and why process, frameworks, and outside advice are often worth ignoring.

Key Takeaways:

🚀 You don’t need complex processes to build a successful product

Building something meaningful doesn’t always require elaborate processes or formal business structures. With passion, a clear vision, and consistent execution, developers can create successful products without overcomplicating the journey.

🔄 A strong feedback loop with your community can drive product evolution

Engaging with an active user community creates a continuous feedback loop that helps developers iterate faster and build more relevant features. Listening to real users and balancing their input with your vision can transform a product into something that truly resonates.

📈 Pricing strategies require experimentation, not perfection

Initial pricing doesn’t need to be perfect. By experimenting with different price points over time, you can find a balance that works for your users. Significant price increases might not impact demand as much as you’d expect, giving you room to adjust and optimize without overthinking the starting point.

💡 Reactive development can lead to faster, more informed decisions

Acting quickly in response to persistent customer requests can help validate new features and insights faster. Instead of over-analyzing, shipping updates rapidly provides real-world feedback that guides better decision-making.

💸 Plan for risks when relying on third-party dependencies

Building heavily on a third-party API can expose you to unexpected changes in pricing or policies, potentially leading to unsustainable costs. Always evaluate the long-term stability and alignment of external platforms with your business goals to safeguard against disruption.

About Guest

👨‍💻 Indie iOS developer and creator of the Apollo for Reddit app.

📱In addition to Apollo, Christian is also the creator of Juno, Pixel Pals, and a burgeoning YouTube channel.

👋 LinkedIn

Follow us on X:

• David Barnard
• Jacob Eiting
• RevenueCat
• Sub Club

Episode Highlights

[3:33] Origin story: Christian’s time at Apple and path to indie development.

[4:58] Positive feedback loop: How collecting user input from Reddit users helped shape Apollo.

[8:23] Go your own way: There’s no one-size-fits-all formula for creating a successful app.

[15:25] Passion project: Truly caring about what you’re building is one of the most important factors for success.

[26:48] Just say no: How to decline feature requests without alienating your users.

[30:10] Choose your own adventure: Understanding the venture-backed model versus indie development.

[36:30] End of the line: How and why Christian made the decision to shut down Apollo.

[47:40] Vision for the future: Christian’s post-Apollo projects: Juno, Pixel Pals, and YouTube.

On the podcast: The impact of Apple Search Ads on organic search, how to save money on brand defense, and why ROAS shouldn’t be the only thing you optimize for.

Key Takeaways:

📊 Optimizing brand keyword bids can protect traffic and reduce costs
Running ads on brand keywords helps protect your traffic from competitors. By experimenting with lower bids, you can often maintain visibility while reducing costs, ensuring that you capture valuable traffic efficiently.

💸 Long-term ROAS is key for subscription app growth
Subscription apps should focus on the lifetime value (LTV) of users rather than just immediate ROAS. A campaign that breaks even over 365 days, rather than in the first week, can still be highly profitable if it contributes to stacking valuable subscriber cohorts that generate long-term revenue.

🔄 Broad match keywords can uncover valuable, unexpected search terms
Using broad match in Apple Search Ads can help discover new, high-intent keywords that might not have been initially considered. Regularly reviewing search term reports allows you to identify and capitalize on these hidden opportunities, expanding your app’s reach effectively.

🌍 Emerging markets offer untapped Apple Search Ads potential
As Apple expands its App Store presence in new regions, testing campaigns in countries like Brazil can lead to unexpected gains. Often, these markets have less competition and lower CPAs, making them fertile ground for scaling your app’s user base efficiently.

🛠️ Custom product pages can enhance campaign performance by targeting specific user segments
Leveraging custom product pages in Apple Search Ads allows you to tailor the App Store experience to specific keywords or user segments. This strategy can improve conversion rates by aligning the app's messaging and visuals with the search intent, making it especially useful during seasonal promotions or for targeting niche audiences.

About Guest

👨‍💻 Data engineer and founder of Search Ads Optimization.

📢 Dilip helps app developers and marketers optimize their Apple Search Ads campaigns and increase their ROI using data-driven insights and automation.

👋 LinkedIn

Follow us on X:

• David Barnard
• Jacob Eiting
• RevenueCat
• Sub Club

Episode Highlights

[5:35] Everybody’s changing: Trends for Apple Search Ads in 2024.

[11:09] Running (brand) defense: Experimenting with lower bids to save money while maintaining the level of impressions you want.

[19:16] Widening the search: How to leverage exact match and broad match keywords in Apple Search Ads.

[29:46] ‘Tis the season: How different times of year and holidays can affect CPA and ROI for Apple Search Ads campaigns.

[35:05] Playing the long game: Why subscription app developers should think about long-term — not short-term — return on ad spend (ROAS).

[48:16] Tipping the scales: How to scale Apple Search Ads.

[55:11] Custom-fit: How to implement custom product pages in your Apple Search Ads strategy.

On the podcast: How to find success with web2app, the value (and challenges) of “owning the transaction”, and why avoiding app store fees isn’t a great reason to experiment with web2app, but might work out anyway.

Key Takeaways:

💰 There’s much more to web2app than avoiding app store fees - In fact, looking at app store fees alone disregards the benefits of going via the app store, such as a substantially better conversion rate. Even if web acquisition is cheaper, those users are not worth the same to your business.

🔍 Better advantages of web2app to focus on include… Greater flexibility with attribution, access to new audiences (via organic and paid), and support for B2B use cases, among others.

💼 Use web2app for B2B billing - IAPs lack an elegant solution for B2B billing, whether it’s making it easy for individuals to expense purchases or offering teams a simple way to manage group billing.

🎯 Web2App allows for greater customization of user journeys - To fully capitalize on web funnels, tailor user journeys based on their entry point — for instance, a user coming from a branded Google search shouldn’t see the same journey as one coming from TikTok.

📈 Web2App is crucial for scaling up advertising - When ad campaigns plateau, running both web and app campaigns in parallel helps reach new audiences and convert users who might not engage with app install ads alone. This approach allows for better targeting and expands your overall reach.

About Guest:

👨‍💻Independent subscription app growth consultant.

💸Thomas has worked with hundreds of clients and helped manage tens of millions of dollars in ad spend.

👋LinkedIn

Follow us on X:

• David Barnard
• Jacob Eiting
• RevenueCat
• Sub Club

Episode Highlights:

[1:48] Web2App: The advantages of capturing users on the web before sending them to your app.

[6:51] One size doesn’t fit all: To reap the benefits of web2app, don’t just create one user experience on the web.

[11:30] Catch-22: The trade-offs of owning your customer transactions on the web versus paying app store fees.

[27:21] Learn by example: Who’s doing web2app well — and why it works for them.

[37:45] To B2B or not to B2B: How web2app helps B2B apps overcome the team billing and expensing challenges of in-app purchases.

[41:55] Owning it: Owning your transactions on the web can be a great way to reduce churn.

[44:34] World wide(er) web: Break through marketing plateaus by running both web and app ad campaigns in parallel.

[53:52] Cross-platformer: A web2app flow can help you go beyond the App Store and Google Play (to Roku, Apple TV, or the Amazon Appstore) to reach a wider audience.

On the podcast: Implementing effective offline marketing campaigns for acquiring, engaging, and retaining paid subscribers in the app space.

Key Takeaways:

📢 Look beyond digital channels for app growth. Consider offline advertising channels such as radio, linear TV, and podcasts to reach untapped demographics. These channels can help you target non-digital audiences, particularly older, higher-income users who can be more lucrative for subscription-based apps.

🔄 Use diverse methods to measure offline marketing. Utilize a variety of attribution methods, including how-did-you-hear-about-us surveys, incrementality tests, and media mix modeling (MMM) to assess the effectiveness of offline channels. Accept the inherent ambiguity in measurement and use multiple data points to guide your strategy.

🎯 Embrace customer-centered metrics for better retention. Focus on creating proprietary metrics that align with your users’ goals rather than relying on standard industry metrics like daily active users. Babbel’s "learner success" metric prioritizes user progress and satisfaction, leading to higher retention rates.

🔍 Rethink freemium models to boost engagement and conversions. Freemium isn't always the best choice. Consider a hard paywall to increase user commitment and filter out less-engaged users. It’s about quality over quantity — attracting users who truly value your app.

🌐 Optimize both web and app experiences for user journeys. Users often start on the web before downloading your app. Ensure seamless transitions between platforms to improve user experience and conversion rates. Informative web experiences can ease app adoption.

About Guest

👨‍💻 SVP of Growth at Babbel.

📢 Steven and his team have taken a non-traditional approach to marketing Babbel: leveraging offline advertising channels like radio and TV, measuring the success of marketing efforts through a proprietary model, and tracking metrics like learner success instead of monthly active users.

👋 LinkedIn

Follow us on X:

• David Barnard
• Jacob Eiting
• RevenueCat
• Sub Club

Episode Highlights

[0:44] There’s (more than) an app for that: Potential users aren’t just on the app stores, so shouldn’t your marketing campaigns be everywhere too?

[3:54] Radio star: How and why Babbel buys radio spots to advertise their subscription app.

[7:43] Attribution remix: Measuring the success of offline ads can be a challenge and requires a blend of data analysis methods (like user surveys, incrementality tests, and media mix modeling).

[13:57] Freemium isn’t free: Why Babbel rejects the freemium model in favor of a hard paywall.

[18:15] The measure of success: Is Monthly Active Users (MAU) really a good metric to optimize for? (For some mission-driven companies like Babbel, no.)

[18:46] You get what you pay for: Paid subscriptions — especially premium tiers — often see higher levels of user engagement and retention.

[21:43] Web slinger: An optimized web experience can boost app downloads and paid conversions.

On the podcast: How to make better decisions with data, the many pitfalls of collecting and interpreting data, and why the best executive dashboard is probably a hand-written weekly email.

Key Takeaways:
📝Balance data collection with business goals. Collecting all possible data can drown teams in noise and lead to compliance risks. Focus on collecting semantically important data that aligns with business goals and use cases to avoid unnecessary complexity and costs.

💡Prevent exponential cost increases by structuring data early. Establishing a well-structured data collection and management process early on prevents costly modifications and adjustments later. Early alignment and thoughtful planning are crucial.

🔒 Maintain control over data collection to simplify compliance. Managing your own data collection processes can reduce legal and compliance challenges associated with third-party data processors. This is especially crucial for adhering to regulations like GDPR.

🔧Opt for off-the-shelf data solutions early on. Leveraging open-source or ready-made solutions can save time and resources. Maintain a clear evaluation structure for transitioning to custom solutions when needed, and accept changes in data collection methods to avoid outdated systems.

📊Simplified insights over complex dashboards. Dashboards can overwhelm executives with too much data. Instead, providing a succinct, focused summary of key insights through something as simple as a weekly email can be more effective for decision-making.

About Guest

📈 Director of Data Products at News Corp.

💡With over 15 years of experience, Taylor is an expert in building and implementing effective data collection and analytics strategies — helping organizations like Disney+, Business Insider, and Deloitte collect the right data and turn it into actionable insights.

👋 LinkedIn

Follow us on X:

• David Barnard
• Jacob Eiting
• RevenueCat
• Sub Club

Episode Highlights

[3:44] Laying a foundation: Data collection is a lot like constructing a building — setting up the right framework from the beginning can save you a lot of time, effort, and money later.

[7:30] The Goldilocks zone: Collecting either too much or too little data is costly and can potentially have ramifications for data regulation and privacy laws.

[16:58] Information overload: Data is only helpful if you derive actionable information from it.

[20:33] Distilling data: What is a “data product” team? (And why might you need one?)

[26:13] Build vs. buy: Most companies should start with an off-the-shelf data collection solution instead of building something internally — then consider a switch later when the scale and financials make sense.

[33:45] What’s in a name? What you call specific data points and even your data collection system can be very important.

[42:11] Ditch the dashboard: Fancy data analytics dashboards need to be interpreted to be valuable — and without context, they can be misleading.

[51:27] Trix are for… kids?: How Taylor’s experience promoting the television show “Bluey” on Disney+ illustrates the incredible power of data analytics.