On this episode of The Defense Unicorns Podcast, we’re not just talking about writing code—we’re talking about what happens when you try to change the culture of software inside the Department of Defense. From flying to Qatar to debug mission-critical planning tools to reflashing smart lightbulbs with open-source firmware, Wayne Starr has done it all. Host Rebecca Lively sits down with Wayne, a Unicorn Engineer at Defense Unicorns, to unpack what it takes to deliver secure, user-centered software in one of the world’s most complex environments.

Wayne shares how his early career at DIU “ruined” him—in the best possible way—by showing what was possible when bureaucratic blockers are set aside and software teams are trusted to deliver. He dives into real DevSecOps wins and war stories, including a mission-planning app that saved hours of planner time and real dollars in fuel. Along the way, he reflects on the absurdity of battles over office headsets, the power of printing MP3s on paper, and how open source gives individuals more control over their technology.

If you’ve ever tried to navigate the maze of government compliance, or if you’re just wondering what DevSecOps looks like when it’s done right, Wayne’s story offers a rare behind-the-scenes look. From tactical impact to philosophical reflections, this conversation covers what it means to ship software that matters—and why knowing the rules better than anyone else is sometimes the only way to change the game.

Key Quote Options:

“  I want to control technology. I don't want technology to control me. If it's closed-source software, it could suddenly require a subscription at some point, it could be connected to the cloud, and who knows what's happening with the data, who knows where that's going. And so I try to pull as much back as I can to things that I can control and that I can monitor and use.”

• Wayne Starr

Time Stamps:

(00:49) First Assignment at Defense Innovation Unit

(04:28) Skepticism and Acceptance from Users

(12:16) Open Source Software Journey

(29:55) Creating ZARF

(39:23) Other Notable Open Source Projects: Pepper and Lula

(43:31) Lightning Round

Links:

Connect with Wayne Starr

Connect with Rebecca Lively

Learn More About Defense Unicorns

On this episode of The Defense Unicorns Podcast, the question isn’t just how to deliver software—it’s how to do it faster, safer, and smarter. According to Bryan Finster Distinguished Engineer at Defense Unicorns, the answer isn’t in rigid frameworks or bloated processes but in embracing continuous delivery, shortening feedback loops, and eliminating the bureaucratic roadblocks that hold teams back. Host Rebecca Lively sits down with Bryan to debunk DevSecOps’ myths, tackle the frustrations of “Agile theater,” and explore why real software success comes from a culture of ownership, not just following a set of rules.

Bryan makes a compelling case that rigid processes, review boards, and bureaucratic bottlenecks don’t make software safer—they make it fragile. He argues that adaptability is the real key to security, and that organizations clinging to outdated waterfall-style contracts are setting themselves up for failure. Drawing on experiences from Walmart’s supply chain to government defense systems, he explains how fostering a culture of ownership, feedback, and accountability leads to better outcomes—not just for users, but for the engineers who build the systems.

If you’re tired of buzzwords and top-down mandates that miss the mark, this conversation will hit home. Bryan isn’t just here to talk about DevSecOps—he’s here to challenge the way you think about software, leadership, and even history. Whether you want to deliver better software or just hear an unfiltered take on why Agile often fails in practice, this episode is worth a listen.

Key Quote:

“ The goal we have is number one, I need to be able to respond to the realities of what's happening in production as quickly as possible safely. I don't want to be making up ways to. Make change, I don't want to be cowboying change in when something's going wrong in production, either with security breach or functional problems or whatever it is, then I don't want to be throwing gasoline on a fire at three o'clock in the morning. I need to be able to recover from what's currently occurring as quickly and safely as possible. So operational responsiveness is key. The other part is, if I'm building something new, software development is not the same as building a car. Unless you think of it as designing the car we're going to build. We're prototyping everything all the time. And the bigger the thing is that we deliver. The more wrong is in that prototype. And so it's not about speed. It's about feedback.”

• Bryan Finster

Time Stamps:

(01:39) Balancing Speed and Safety in DevOps

(03:53) The Role of Feedback in Software Development

(12:35) The Power of Feedback and Continuous Improvement

(18:35) Understanding Conway's Law

(23:55) Building a Strong Engineering Community

(28:26) DevOps and Quality Assurance

(33:48) Being Agile in High-Risk Environments

(40:13) Lightning Round

Links:

Connect with Bryan Finster

Connect with Rebecca Lively

Learn More About Defense Unicorns

DevOps, culture, and the battlefield converge in this compelling episode of Defense Unicorns as host Rebecca Lively speaks with Dr. Noe Lorona, a platform engineer at the Army Software Factory. Together, they explore the nuances of DevSecOps, unraveling its critical role in the defense sector, where software isn’t just a tool but a lifeline. Dr. Lorona delves into how the Department of Defense has elevated security to the forefront, embedding it into every phase of the development process to ensure reliable and secure systems that protect both lives and missions.

Beyond the technical jargon, this episode shines a light on the human side of DevSecOps. Dr. Lorona emphasizes trust, transparency, and a blameless culture as the foundation of agile teams that thrive under pressure. From the necessity of shifting security left to fostering psychological safety in hierarchical environments, his insights offer a roadmap for cultivating innovation in even the most complex and high-stakes organizations.

If you’re passionate about the intersection of technology, leadership, and national defense, this episode is a must-listen. Dr. Lorona and Rebecca Lively bring the mission of Defense Unicorns to life: showcasing thought leaders and experts driving transformational change in DevSecOps. Whether you're in the DoD or simply curious about the future of secure and agile software development, this conversation will leave you inspired and informed.

Key Quote:

“ DevOps is not about the tools. DevOps is, it's the way that we work together, the way that we accomplish things. And. A funny thing, I actually say DevOps as a way of life. When they say, well, what is DevOps? I say, it's a thing you live by. It's the thing you show up to do. It's not a thing. It's not an object. It's a culture. It's the thing you live to do. It's a reason why we wake up so we can go do the DevOps.”

• Dr. Noe Lorona

Time Stamps:

(00:26) DevOps vs DevSecOps: What's the Difference?

(03:53) Implementing DevOps in the Department of Defense

(06:05) Building a Blameless Culture in the Military

(14:21) Education in DevOps

(24:47) Bringing Open Source Software in the DoD

(30:07) Future of DevOps: Exciting Trends

(30:42) Community and Collaboration in DevOps

(42:07) Career Advice for Aspiring Developers

(43:43) Sci-Fi Tech and Futurism

Links:

Connect with Dr. Noe Lorona

Learn more about Army Software Factory

Connect with Rebecca Lively

Learn more About Defense Unicorns