Professor Fred Provenza is the legendary behavioural ecologist and author who revolutionised how we understand the nature of animal health and intelligence, and its connection to our human health and intelligence. But what really blew Fred away on his journey was what he talked about in this part of our conversation a few years ago, on the capacity of all beings to innately know and select the food and nutrition they need.

Welcome to the 6th edition of Vignettes from the Source, the new short form series featuring some of the unforgettable, transformative and often inexplicable moments my guests have shared over the years.

I initially went in to just grab the 14 minutes you’ll hear first. But when listening back, I couldn’t stop it running till another 10 minutes had ticked along – after I’d asked Fred how all his health findings relate to planetary health too.

And all this was prompted because it happened to come up in conversation yesterday, as I was sitting with another legendary former guest on this podcast, Paul Hawken, back here in California (where our American journey began, and where it’s now ending). So I thought, why not bring it up again here too?

If you’d like to hear or revisit this conversation in full, head to episode 123 – ‘The Wisdom Body a paradigm change in animal, human and planetary health’ (there are a bunch of links in those show notes too, including to Fred’s masterful book, ‘Nourishment: What Animals Can Teach Us About Rediscovering Our Nutritional Wisdom’).

There were actually two parts to episode 123, btw. And there’s another unforgettable section in part 2. But that’s for another day.

For now, I hope you enjoy revisiting this one with Fred Provenza, a man who has come to shine a light not only on the extraordinary regenerative capacities of nature, including humans, but how regenerating all human systems stems from the wisdom of our bodies.

Chapter markers & transcript.

Originally recorded 8 June 2022.

Music:

Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

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This part of my conversation with regenerative agriculture legend, David Marsh, has stayed close since we recorded it at his place back in March 2024. In fact, when I first thought about launching the new series Vignettes from the Source, this passage was front of mind.

Welcome to the 5th Vignette in the series that features some of the unforgettable, transformative and often inexplicable moments my guests have shared over the years.

This ten minutes or so is full of such moments, moments that power David’s enormous legacy. It is part of what was, fittingly, the podcast’s bicentennial episode. And that happened to be recorded days after another prominent guest, gun writer and newish farmer Sam Vincent, said this about an experience of seeing David speak: ‘it was like the king had entered the room’.

Then after the episode with David was released, I was humbled to see a listener had written this review: ‘I’ve listened to thousands of hours of podcasts and never commented. I feel compelled to say this was simply beautiful.’

The land was singing too.

If you’d like to hear or revisit this conversation in full, head to episode 200 – ‘The Land Does It For You’ (with a few photos on that web page too).

Chapter markers & transcript.

Originally recorded 10 March 2024.

Title slide: David & AJ ahead of this conversation (pic: Olivia Cheng).

See more photos on the original episode web page linked above, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener via the links below.

Music:

Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

Send us a text

Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

Become a paid subscriber to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on Patreon or the new Substack.

Or donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

You can also visit The RegenNarration shop. And share, rate and review the podcast.

Thanks for your support!

Last week’s episode from the ancient Great House of Pueblo Bonito in Chaco Canyon, New Mexico, left something out. Before my guest Dana Scott and I headed back to the car, we went back towards the entrance and plaza, because I couldn’t pass up the opportunity to talk about how Dana’s path has arrived at a transformational restorative justice approach to education, how that evolved from our time in Guatemala together, and how being at Chaco relates to it all.

We quipped at the outset that this could be another podcast, and really, it was. I hope you enjoy it.

And for those of you who enjoyed the conversation with Jenny Finn at Springhouse Community School, it was Dana, through Dwanna (who you’ll hear about here) who introduced us.

I’ll share more photos of our visit to Chaco, in addition to those appearing on the website, with paid subscribers today also, with great thanks for making all this possible.

Recorded 15 April 2025.

Title slide photo by Olivia Cheng.

See more photos on the episode web page, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

Music:

Chauen, Angel Salazar (sourced from Artlist).

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

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Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

Become a paid subscriber to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on Patreon or the new Substack.

Or donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

You can also visit The RegenNarration shop. And share, rate and review the podcast.

Thanks for your support!

This episode was made during one of the most extraordinary experiences of my life. It happened in a place that’s been called the most important site in the world. Lynne Kelly said that, co-author of Songlines, and my guest in the extremely popular episode 92. She said it in a call with filmmaker Anna Sofaer and I a little after this was recorded. Anna has made a series of extraordinary films about this place, as founder of The Solstice Project.

The place is called Chaco Canyon, located in the heart of New Mexico, and at the centre of the ancient Chacoan civilisation. This World Heritage site is still so little known, and at a time when its mysteries, prophesies and conscious transformations are so relevant to us today.

So this episode comes to you from the centrepiece of the centrepiece – the greatest of the Great Houses, Pueblo Bonito. I’m joined there by Dana Scott, a great old mate from our time in Guatemala a quarter of a century ago, highly accomplished educator and counsellor, and newish subscriber to the podcast too. Some of you may remember reading about him in a piece on Substack while we were in Philadelphia last year, as the Scott family invited us along to their old haunt. We’d been spending time with them in their current haunt in Baltimore, when it was revealed we had a long-standing mutual calling to Chaco Canyon. So we resolved to meet there.

Dana and I peeled off in golden twilight one evening to share some of our transformational experience of the place. This includes some deeply personal and crazily uncanny links. But as we say in the conversation, there is so much to this story and place. So if you, like us, find yourself fascinated with it all, do go to the sources we talk about - the tribes, researchers and of course what lies beyond.

Chapter markers & transcript.

Recorded 15 April 2025. (Intro recorded in the car at camp)

Title slide: the view during this conversation (pic: Anthony James).

See more photos on the episode web page, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

For those keen to hear about Old Salt Festival, I’ve sent an initial missive with photos to paid subscribers on Patreon and Substack, and I’ll have more for you all soon.

Music:

Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

Footage of Mercedes Sosa singing Cuando Tenga la Tierra, following Solo Le Pido a Dios.

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Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

Become a paid subscriber to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on Patreon or the new Substack.

Or donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

You can also visit The RegenNarration shop. And share, rate and review the podcast.

Thanks for your support!

In last week’s episode with Dr Jann Hayman, winding up our series from the Osage Nation, I mentioned we’d just been on a tour of their astounding Greenhouse. The woman who kindly gave us that tour, Dawn Wormington, had been recruited for the job by the Osage. And in this brief bonus to the Osage series, we hear from Dawn about the unexpected, unintended gift that keeps on giving, out of the filming of Killers of the Flower Moon.

If you happen to have come to the Osage series here first, you can hear my brief scene-setting introductory episode to the series with filmmaker Nicol Ragland here, my conversation with Chief Standing Bear here, and subsequent conversation with Dr Jann Hayman here (recommended in sequence).

I’ll share more photos of our visit, in addition to those appearing on the website, with paid subscribers this week.

Recorded 4 April 2025.

Title slide: AJ & Dawn astride the pineapples in the greenhouse (pic: Nicol Ragland).

See more photos on the website, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

Music:

Music by Jeremiah Johnson.

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

Send us a text

Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

Become a paid subscriber to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on Patreon or the new Substack.

Or donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

You can also visit The RegenNarration shop. And share, rate and review the podcast.

Thanks for your support!

Dr. Jann Hayman is Secretary of Natural Resources for the Osage Nation. We’ve just come from a tour of their astounding greenhouse, after having had a powerful conversation with Chief Standing Bear. Jann’s graciously welcomed filmmaker Nicol Ragland and I for a chat at her office, amidst her busy end of the week. Both Chief and Nicol sing Jann’s praises loudly. Nicol calls her a powerhouse. And when she won the award from which I drew the title image for this episode, the presenter said ‘if you haven’t been to Pawhuska to see [their] facilities, you need to!’

This continues our special series from Osage Nation HQ, in Pawhuska Oklahoma. Today, we speak with Jann about how the Nation is going about its masterful resurgence, on the ground. Jann was Director of Environment and Natural Resources when the Tribe mobilised much of its recent food sovereignty and related achievements. In the wake of that, she was asked onto Chief’s Cabinet.

This conversation picks up from Chief’s, as we flesh out the realities of those achievements, including their remarkable land re-acquisition and food sovereignty measures, related buffalo restoration, broader wildlife too, language innovation, trust-based funding, reconnecting with the elders, and building a systemic movement. We hear, too, how all this is impacting people, and what big ideas are next. And again, this is a very frank, inspiring, and fun yarn. With a deeply moving story and piece of music, played by Jann, to close.

If you happen to have come to the Osage series here first, you can hear my chat with Chief Standing Bear last week, and the brief scene-setting episode with Nicol, the week prior (if you’re not familiar with the back story on this one, it’s worth ducking back to listen to that 13 minutes with Nicol first).

Chapter markers & transcript.

Recorded 4 April 2025. (Intro recorded at Greens Lake, Utah)

Title slide source.

More photos on the episode web page, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

Music:

Stones & Bones, by Owls of the Swamp.

Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

Send us a text

Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

Become a paid subscriber to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on Patreon or the new Substack.

Or donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

You can also visit The RegenNarration shop. And share, rate and review the podcast.

Thanks for your support!

As introduced last week, we’re about to have a very special meeting with Chief Standing Bear of the Osage Nation. The family and I made our way with friend and filmmaker Nicol Ragland to Osage HQ in Pawhuska, Oklahoma. How the Osage survived being marched to these lands by the US government in the 19th century, and ongoing brutality in the 20th, is a scene set in last week’s episode (if you’re not familiar with that back story, it’s worth ducking back to listen to that brief 13 minute episode first).

We pick up the Osage story in the 21st century, where they’re mapping a masterful resurgence including the rare reclamation of land, the powerful realisation of food sovereignty, the innovative return of language, and so much more.

As mentioned in the introductory episode last week, some of you might recognise the Osage Nation from the recent Martin Scorsese film, Killers of the Flower Moon. The Chief’s early reference to their extraordinary Academy Awards live performance relates to that.

Join me with Chief Standing Bear, for a fascinating, frank, fun and generous insight into the Osage Nation, his role, and their resurgence.

Chapter markers & transcript.

Recorded 4 April 2025. (Intro recorded by the Colorado River at camp in Castle Valley, Utah.)

Title slide: The Chief, from the Nation’s website.

See more photos on the episode web page, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

Music:

Stones & Bones, by Owls of the Swamp.

Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

Send us a text

Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

Become a paid subscriber to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on Patreon or the new Substack.

Or donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

You can also visit The RegenNarration shop. And share, rate and review the podcast.

Thanks for your support!

Welcome to the launch of a very special series from a very special visit to the Osage Nation. Some of you might recognise the Osage Nation from the recent Martin Scorsese film, Killers of the Flower Moon (have a look at this awesome live performance at the Oscars). Or from the book that was based on, by David Grann. Or indeed, from the podcast series, In Trust. They’ve all done a heck of a job bringing to new light and new generations what was done to the Osage back in 1920s Oklahoma. In this series, we follow the story of the Osage in the 2020s – mapping a masterful resurgence of land reclamation, food sovereignty, the return of language, and so much more.

Our privilege was to share time with Chief Standing Bear, and later the Nation’s Secretary of Natural Resources, Dr Jann Hayman. The stories and work of both are captivating, moving and often astounding.

To set the scene for us first is the person who introduced us, friend and filmmaker Nicol Ragland. You might remember Nicol as director of the very first Farmers Footprint film, among many others. Or episode 80 on this podcast. Well, four years since that podcast, after we moved on from last week’s incredible story in Texas, we met Nicol for the first time in person at her home in Oklahoma City. And after we’d visited the Osage together, we headed out to Nicol’s farm. That’s its own story. For this episode though, I asked if she’d share some of the story of her unlikely return to her roots in Oklahoma, and how only then did she start to learn of its deeper stories.

Chapter markers & transcript.

Recorded 8 April 2025.

Title slide: Nicol at her farm (pic: Anthony James).

For more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

Music:

Beginning & ending music by Jeremiah Johnson.

Stones & Bones, by Owls of the Swamp.

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

Send us a text

Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

Become a paid subscriber to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on Patreon or the new Substack.

Or donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

You can also visit The RegenNarration shop. And share, rate and review the podcast.

Thanks for your support!