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Charles Duhigg is a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and best-selling author known for distilling complex neuroscience and psychology into practical strategies for behavior change, performance, and decision-making. In this episode, Charles explores the neuroscience behind habit formation, including how cue-routine-reward loops drive nearly half of our daily actions and why positive reinforcement is far more effective than punishment. He explains how institutions like the military and Alcoholics Anonymous engineer environments to change behavior at scale, as well as discussing the limits of willpower and how to preserve it by shaping context. The conversation also covers the real timeline of habit formation, how to teach better habits to kids, the role of failure and self-compassion in lasting change, and the power of social accountability. Charles further discusses how cognitive routines enhance productivity and creativity, how to gamify long-term goals through immediate rewards, why identity and purpose are often the strongest forces behind sustainable behavior change, and the potential of AI to power habit change.

We discuss:

• How Charles’s background in journalism and personal experiences led to his interest in habit formation [3:15];
• The science behind reinforcement: why positive rewards outperform punishment in habit formation [10:15];
• How the military uses habit science to train soldiers using cues, routines, and rewards [17:15];
• Methods for creating good habits and eliminating bad ones: environmental control, small wins, rewards-based motivation, and more [24:00];
• How parents can teach kids to build habits and strengthen willpower [32:15];
• How adults experience changes in motivation and cue effectiveness over time, and why willpower must be managed like a finite resource [34:30];
• Keys to successful habit change: planning for relapse, learning from failure, and leveraging social support [38:00];
• Advice for parents: praise effort, model habits, and normalize failure [47:45];
• The time required for making or breaking a habit [50:45];
• The different strategies for creating new habits vs. changing existing ones, and the crucial role of cues and reward timing [55:15];
• How to create habits around long-term goals when the rewards are delayed (like saving money) [1:01:45];
• How to stick with good habits that offer no immediate reward: designing reinforcements and identity-based motivation [1:11:15];
• The potential for AI to provide social reinforcement [1:16:45];
• Mental habits: how thought patterns and contemplative routines shape deep thinking, innovation, and high-stakes performance [1:23:30];
• How cognitive routines boost productivity and habit formation but may stifle creativity [1:35:15];
• Contemplative routines: using stillness to unlock deeper productivity and creativity [1:40:45];
• How habits reduce decision fatigue and enable deep, high-quality productivity [1:44:15];
• New research that reveals the power of environment and social feedback in habit formation [1:49:45];
• How AI may transform work, identity, and our sense of purpose [1:53:45];
• The potential of AI-powered habit change, and the essential—but often lacking—element of motivation [2:02:30]; and
• More.

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View the Show Notes Page for This Episode

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Eric Verdin is a physician-scientist and the CEO of the Buck Institute for Research on Aging whose career has centered on understanding how epigenetics, metabolism, and the immune system influence the aging process. In this episode, Eric traces his scientific journey from studying viruses and histone deacetylases (HDACs) to leading aging research at the Buck Institute, offering insights into how aging impairs immune and nervous system function—including thymic shrinkage, chronic inflammation, and reduced vaccine response—and how these changes impact lifespan. He explores the metabolic underpinnings of aging, such as oxidative stress and insulin and IGF-1 signaling, and he discusses practical tools like zone 2 cardio, ketogenic diets, and GLP-1 drugs. The conversation also covers declining NAD levels with age, the roles of NAD-consuming enzymes such as sirtuins and CD38, and what current NAD-boosting strategies (like NMN, NR, and IV NAD) can and can’t accomplish. Eric weighs in on promising longevity interventions including rapamycin, growth hormone for thymic regeneration, and anti-inflammatory therapies, while also examining the promise and limitations of current biological age tests and the potential of combining epigenetic, proteomic, and organ-specific metrics with wearables to guide personalized longevity care.

We discuss:

• Eric’s scientific journey from virology to the field of geroscience [2:45];
• How dysfunction in the immune system and central nervous system can drive aging throughout the body [5:00];
• The role of metabolism and oxidative stress in aging, and why antioxidant strategies have failed to deliver clear benefits [8:45];
• Other aspects of metabolism linked to aging: mitochondrial efficiency, fuel utilization, and glucose-modulating drugs [16:30];
• How inefficient glucose metabolism drives insulin, IGF-1 signaling, and accelerates aging [21:45];
• The metabolic effects of GLP-1 agonists, and the need to move beyond crude metrics like BMI in favor of more precise assessments of metabolic health [27:00];
• The case for immune health as a “fifth horseman” [36:00];
• How the innate and adaptive immune systems work together to build immune memory [39:45];
• Why vaccines lose effectiveness with age: shrinking of the thymus gland and diminished T-cell diversity [44:15];
• Exploring growth hormone, thymic regeneration, and the role of exercise in slowing immune aging [48:45];
• The challenges of identifying reliable biomarkers for immune function, and the potential of rapamycin analogs to enhance vaccine response in older adults [57:45];
• How rapamycin’s effects on the immune system vary dramatically by dosage and frequency [1:03:30];
• The limitations of mouse models in aging research and the need for cautious interpretation of rapamycin’s benefits in humans [1:08:15];
• NAD, sirtuins, and aging: scientific promise amid commercial hype [1:15:45];
• How CD38 drives age-related NAD decline, influences immune function, and may impact longevity [1:23:45];
• How NMN and NR supplementation interact with CD38 and NAD metabolism, and potential risks like homocysteine elevation and one-carbon cycle depletion [1:31:00];
• Intravenous NAD: limited evidence and serious risks [1:37:00];
• Interleukin-11 (IL-11) as a new target in immune aging, the dual role of chronic inflammation in aging, and the need for better biomarkers to guide interventions [1:43:00];
• Biological aging clocks: types of clocks, promise, major limitations, and future outlook [1:48:30];
• The potential of proteomics-based aging clocks for detecting organ-specific decline and frailty [2:00:45]; and
• More.

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