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What if the best learning isn’t the most polished—but the most meaningful?

In this inspiring episode, Dr. John Spencer—educator, author, and host of The Creative Classroom—sat down with Phil to explore how project-based learning, design thinking, and creative risk-taking help students master academic content and build the core competencies they need for life. From the messy middle of learning to the power of student voice, John shares practical insights and stories that challenge the myth of perfection and reframe what success really looks like in school.

John and Phil talk about what makes learning stick, why unfinished work still matters, and how teachers can give students—and themselves—permission to be messy, curious, and adventurous in an age of AI.

Whether you’re a classroom teacher, school leader, or parent, this episode will leave you rethinking how creativity, reflection, and deep learning come together to shape empowered learners.

And, be sure to check out John's books including; Launch, Vintage Innovation, and, The A.i. Roadmap, and explore his sketch videos on YouTube.

Follow the EduByDesign Blog to explore the podcast topics, further.

And please let Phil know what resonates with you, in the comments.