Robinson’s Podcast #240 - Peter Godfrey-Smith: Cuttlefish, Octopuses, and the Consciousness of Mysterious Minds

Peter Godfrey-Smith is a professor in the School of History and Philosophy of Science at the University of Sydney. He has also taught at Stanford University and Harvard University. Among other topics, he has researched the philosophy of biology and mind, and is very well-known for his book Other Minds: The Octopus, The Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness (FSG, 2016). In this episode, Peter and Robinson discuss that book, as well as his latest, Living on Earth (William Collins, 2024). More particularly, they discuss cuttlefish, octopuses, consciousness, metaethics, and animal welfare.

Peter’s Website: https://petergodfreysmith.com

Living on Earth: https://a.co/d/9MvUFHV

OUTLINE

00:00 Introduction

01:10 Scuba Diving with Cuttlefish and Octopuses

09:43 Why Did Creatures Evolve Nervous Systems?

16:18 Why Did Conscious Minds Evolve?

27:23 Why Do We Believe that Other Animals Have Minds?

36:49 Do Shrimp or Fish Feel Pain?

47:01 What’s It Like to Be an Octopus?

57:32 What Is Metaethics?

1:04:57 First-Order Ethics

1:08:12 Is It Morally Acceptable to Eat Animals?

1:16:04 What Does Peter Eat?

1:29:49 Future Work

Ned Block is Silver Professor at New York University in the Departments of Philosophy and Psychology, where he works on the philosophy of mind, the philosophy of neuroscience, and cognitive science. In this episode, Robinson and Ned discuss some of the titans he studied under, ChatGPT and the nature of artificial intelligence, the Turing Test, androids, consciousness, the connection between seeing and thinking, blindsight, change blindness, and more. Ned’s most recent book is The Border Between Seeing and Thinking (OUP, 2023).

Ned’s Website: https://www.nedblock.us

The Border Between Seeing and Thinking: https://a.co/d/fqVb7gj

OUTLINE

00:00 Introduction

00:53 Ned’s Entry into Philosophy of Mind

02:08 On Hilary Putnam, John Rawls, and Philippa Foot

08:10 Can ChatGPT Do Multiplication?

10:57 Does Noam Chomsky Understand ChatGPT?

13:11 Is the Turing Test Completely Wrong?

17:52 On Daniel Dennett

23:46 On Michael Graziano and the Attention Schema Theory of Consciousness

26:03 Are Animals Conscious?

30:51 Does ChatGPT Pass the Turing Test?

36:53 Mary in the White Room

41:16 The Blockhead Thought Experiment

45:53 How to Show that ChatGPT Is Dumb

48:51 Why Can’t ChatGPT Reason About Images?

51:48 How to Create an Android

55:10 What Is Thought?

1:00:13 Susan Carey

1:03:19 Are There Different Kinds of Consciousness?

1:05:10 On Psychoanalysis

1:06:08 What Are Blindsight and Change Blindness?

1:11:38 The Difference Between Seeing and Thinking

1:16:03 Was Helen Keller Conscious?

1:18:39 Are Salmon Conscious?

1:20:58 What Are the Dominant Theories of Consciousness?

1:27:35 Do We Know What Consciousness Is?

1:31:25 Functionalism and Mental Properties

Robinson’s Website: http://robinsonerhardt.com

Robinson Erhardt researches symbolic logic and the foundations of mathematics at Stanford University.

Barry Loewer is Distinguished Professor of Philosophy at Rutgers. Before that he did his PhD in philosophy at Stanford. Barry works largely in the philosophy of physics, the philosophy of science, and metaphysics. This is Barry’s third appearance on the show. He was last on episode 189 with David Albert, in which Robinson, David, and Barry discussed David and Barry’s joint program known as “The Mentaculus”, which they use to solve many problems in the foundations of physics, from probability to the direction of time. In this episode, Barry and Robinson discuss the philosophical foundations of science, touching on the relationship between science and pseudoscience, Karl Popper, string theory, scientific realism, and many other important debates and figures. If you’re interested in the foundations of physics, then please check out the the John Bell Institute for the Foundations of Physics, which is devoted to providing a home for research and education in this important area. Any donations are immensely helpful at this early stage in the institute’s life.

The Probability Map of the Universe: https://a.co/d/4XoYTMY

The John Bell Institute: https://www.johnbellinstitute.org

OUTLINE

00:00 Introduction

7:53 On Pseudoscience and Astrology

11:40 Falsification as a Criterion of Science

16:40 Is String Theory Pseudoscience?

20:14 On Marxism

24:45 What Is Scientific Realism?

34:35 On Hilary Putnam

42:16 Science Vs Metaphysics

48:32 Time in Science and Metaphysics

52:38 On Fundamentalia

56:01 On Reductionism

1:00:04 On Consciousness and Emergence

1:04:56 On Causation

1:25:52 On Time Travel

1:28:29 On Explanation and Thermodynamics

1:39:23 On Free Will

1:47:00 The Laws of Nature

Robinson’s Website: http://robinsonerhardt.com

Robinson Erhardt researches symbolic logic and the foundations of mathematics at Stanford University.

Tim Maudlin is Professor of Philosophy at NYU and Founder and Director of the John Bell Institute for the Foundations of Physics. This is Tim’s seventh appearance on the show. He last appeared on episode 210 with David Albert for a discussion of the measurement problem in quantum mechanics. In this episode, Tim and Robinson talk about Albert Einstein’s theory of special relativity, explaining it from the ground up and elucidating some common misconceptions. More particularly, they get into Einstein’s magnificent mind, how special relativity displaced the theory of the ether, absolute and relative space, the speed and nature of light, the possibility of time travel, relativistic quantum mechanics, and more. If you’re interested in the foundations of physics, then please check out the JBI, which is devoted to providing a home for research and education in this important area. Any donations are immensely helpful at this early stage in the institute’s life.

Tim’s Website: www.tim-maudlin.site

The John Bell Institute: https://www.johnbellinstitute.org

OUTLINE

00:00 Introduction

01:59 The Amazing Fertility of Einstein's Mind

08:50 The Mysterious Ether and Why It Isn't All Around Us

25:01 Einstein Versus Relative and Absolute Space

29:58 The Single Most Important Experiment in Physics

45:23 Special Relativity and Absolute Space

53:56 The Conceptual Clarity of Genius Physicists

1:01:05 A Thought Experiment to Explain Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity

1:13:48 Is the Speed of Light an Illusion?

1:23:33 Richard Feynman's Big Mistake About Einstein

1:34:23 On Einstein and the Possibility of Time Travel

1:42:53 Is Special Relativity Compatible with Quantum Mechanics?

1:49:55 Relativistic Bohmian Mechanics

1:57:00 Does Anything Move Faster than Light?

1:59:03 The John Bell Institute for the Foundations of Physics

Robinson’s Website: http://robinsonerhardt.com

Robinson Erhardt researches symbolic logic and the foundations of mathematics at Stanford University.

David Albert is the Frederick E. Woodbridge Professor of Philosophy at Columbia University, director of the Philosophical Foundations of Physics program at Columbia, and a faculty member of the John Bell Institute for the Foundations of Physics. This is David’s ninth appearance on Robinson’s Podcast. He last appeared on episode 221 to discuss the measurement problem of quantum mechanics. In this episode, David gives a pedagogical and introductory overview of the problem of time’s arrow, which is one of the most enduring of all physical and philosophical puzzles. David’s most recent book is A Guess at the Riddle (2023). If you’re interested in the foundations of physics, then please check out the JBI, which is devoted to providing a home for research and education in this important area. Any donations are immensely helpful at this early stage in the institute’s life.

A Guess at the Riddle: https://a.co/d/6qcsidl

The John Bell Institute: https://www.johnbellinstitute.org

OUTLINE

00:58 The Tension Between Past and Future in Physics

8:56 The Arrow of Time in Life and Physics

12:26 The Three Arrows of Time

18:12 Entropy and the Direction of Time

29:12 Thermodynamics and the Problem of the Past

38:26 Why Do We Remember the Past But Not the Future?

48:46 Two Ways to Understand the Past

1:04:21 Why Can We Affect the Future But Not the Past

1:17:51 Why Can Agents Control the Future but not the Past?

1:26:57 Can the Laws of Quantum Physics Be Run Backward?

1:33:11 The Connection Between the Foundations of Quantum Physics and Statistical Mechanics

1:41:53 Cosmology and the Past Hypothesis

1:44:25 Why are Left and Right Different from Past and Future?

1:49:28 The Difference Between Space and Time

1:57:14 Is Time a Fundamental Part of Reality?

1:59:14 Future Work

Robinson’s Website: http://robinsonerhardt.com

Robinson Erhardt researches symbolic logic and the foundations of mathematics at Stanford University

Janna Levin is the Claire Tow Professor of Physics and Astronomy at Barnard College of Columbia University. She is also the Chair and Founding Director of the Science Studios at Pioneer Works. In this episode, Robinson and Janna talk all about black holes and how to survive them. More particularly, they discuss how black holes were discovered both theoretically and empirically, common misconceptions about black holes, their role in theories of quantum gravity, and how they do and will contribute to both the life and death of the universe. If you’d like to learn more about black holes, read Janna’s latest book, Black Hole Survival Guide (Anchor, 2022). Janna’s Website: https://jannalevin.com Black Hole Survival Guide: https://a.co/d/biGGqZc Pioneer Works: https://pioneerworks.org OUTLINE 00:00 Introduction 06:10 The Original Theory of Black Holes 14:45 Is There Gravity in Space? 20:40 Just What IS a Black Hole? 38:47 Why Physicists Resisted the Possibility of Black Holes 50:44 What’s at the Center of a Black Hole? 55:34 What Happens When Something Falls into a Black Hole? 1:03:23 Is Leonard Susskind a Genius Physicist? 1:12:07 What Is the Fine-Tuning Problem? 1:17:52 How Close Can You Get to a Black Hole and Still Survive? 1:25:10 Why Are Black Holes Perfect Objects? 1:32:12 How Do Black Holes Form? 1:41:31 What Will Happen to the Sun When It Dies? 1:50:38 Black Holes, Dark Energy, and the Fate of the Universe 1:54:45 The Heat Death of the Universe 1:59:18 Pioneer Works Robinson’s Website: http://robinsonerhardt.com Robinson Erhardt researches symbolic logic and the foundations of mathematics at Stanford University.

This episode came on the heels of a traumatic, eight-interview sprint in NYC. As you’ll see, this one was particularly chaotic, but the stars aligned to make it happen. Camera switches, bathroom breaks, health concerns, equipment malfunctions, and even a robbery didn’t prevent the conversation from coming together. With this in mind, I hope you’ll forgive how crazy and inconsistent the video is; the fact that it even got put together is courtesy of my friend and editor Yu Guo (a philosopher who got his PhD from NYU with past guest Paul Boghossian). Given that there’s some new intro music, and you’re already getting an abundance of distracting production nuggets, I decided to show the soup being made. My thanks go to Richard, who met with me twice in three days (not to mention his wife, who allowed it), and Michael, who put up with me for over four hours.
- Robinson

P.S. Toward the end of the episode Michael eats a jerky stick from Maui Nui Venison, which is a company operating out of Hawaii that manages the invasive deer population of Maui that is decimating the landscape. Instead of culling the animals and disposing of their bodies, the meat is butchered and sold. It is the only meat I eat, full-stop, and the ethical reasons are sufficient for this, but it is also the best meat that I have ever had. I reached out to Maui Nui and told them that I support what they are doing and would like to be of any help that I can. They gave me this coupon code—ROBINSON—which you can use for 15% off. I am not being paid for this in any way. I believe in what they are doing and I want this model to succeed. People are going to be eating meat for the foreseeable future and I would be happier if it was not factory-farmed meat. So please check Maui Nui out and give them a try!

Richard Wolff is Professor Emeritus of Economics at the University of Massachusetts Amherst and a visiting professor at The New School, where he works on economics in the Marxist tradition. Michael Hudson is Distinguished Research Professor of Economics at the University of Missouri, Kansas City and President of the Institute for the Study of Long-Term Economic Trends. He researches domestic and international finance, the history of economics, and the role of debt in shaping class stratification, among many other topics.

OUTLINE

00:00 Introduction

00:51 Michael and Rick's Histories with Marx

16:50 A Marxless Education

29:42 Marxism and the West

35:18 Marx and the Emergence of Capitalism

43:59 Socialism Vs State Capitalism

49:21 The Culmination of Economics in Marx

57:16 The Crucial Features of Marxism

1:12:15 Marx, China, and the BRICS

1:25:57 The Laws of Motion of Finance Capitalism

1:28:58 Why Won't Mainstream Media Interview Michael Hudson and Richard Wolff?

1:42:16 Why is the American Empire Crumbling?

1:54:51 Is the Dollar Destroying the United States?

2:01:38 Marx as the Culmination of Classical Economics

2:10:19 Will Trump's China Tariff Policy Spell Disaster for America?

2:22:43 Is Trump's Policy on Russia Idiotic?

2:27:23 Does It Matter for America Who Wins the Election?

2:37:13 Michael's Rhetorical Abilities

2:43:54 How Can We Use Economics to Forecast the Future?

2:54:48 Does Paul Krugman Know Anything About Economics?

2:57:57 How Michael Got His PhD

3:04:59 What's Wrong With the Nobel Prize in Economics?

3:10:04 The Long and Short of Marx's Kapital

3:17:20 Capitalism and Labor

3:31:51 The Biggest Myth About Karl Marx

Judith Butler is Distinguished Professor in the Graduate School and formerly the Maxine Elliot Chair in the Department of Comparative Literature and the Program of Critical Theory at the University of California, Berkeley. In this episode, Robinson and Judith discuss three broad topics. First, they talk about Judith’s latest book, Who’s Afraid of Gender? (Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2024). In particular, they touch on the dynamics of sex and gender, as well as their political dimensions. Second, the conversation turns to the 2024 presidential election between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. Finally, they broach the topic of Israel and Palestine, with particular attention to the questions of genocide and anti-semitism. Who’s Afraid of Gender?: https://a.co/d/beDcQ1S OUTLINE 00:00 Introduction 01:03 Judith’s Introduction to Philosophy and Gender Studies 11:00 Who’s Afraid of Gender? 22:11 On Trans and Intersex Olympics Controversies 26:09 Is the Man/Woman Binary a Fantasy? 35:17 Are Putin and Orban Transphobic? 41:49 How to Change One’s Gender 47:25 Language and Gender 52:16 On Psychoanalysis 58:49 On Gender Issues and the 2024 Election 1:04:30 On Trump 2024 1:06:14 On Harris 2024 1:10:39 Is Anti-Zionism Anti-Semitism? 1:18:51 Is Gaza a Concentration Camp? 1:20:49 How Will the War in Israel and Palestine End? Robinson’s Website: http://robinsonerhardt.com Robinson Erhardt researches symbolic logic and the foundations of mathematics at Stanford University. Join him in conversations with philosophers, scientists, historians, economists, and everyone in-between.