This week on Real Talk with Rachael, I’m speaking with Dr. Josh Zeichik. Josh is the Director of Church Engagement for Focus on The Family. With experience in youth ministry and church planting, he oversees their pastoral ministry, The Focused Pastor. He holds a DMin in Biblical Counseling from Midwestern Baptist Theology Seminary.

• Although media coverage of prominent church leader failures affects trust in clergy, not all pastors are leading double lives. Most pastors are sincere in their service to God.
• The early church faced similar challenges, with warnings of false teachers and leaders who exploited people. Today, it's not necessarily a rise in such issues but increased awareness.
• Every pastor sins, but not every sin is the same. The way the church responds should depend on the severity of the issue, with criminal actions treated differently than personal failings.
• When church members experience hurt from pastoral leadership, it can lead to doubt, mistrust, and even cynicism. Doubt is natural, but the Bible encourages believers to remain steadfast in their faith and to show mercy to those struggling.
• The term "spiritual abuse" is frequently used, but "sinful pastoral leadership" may be a more accurate term to describe a spectrum of behaviors where pastors either exploit their position for personal gain or fail to live morally according to their teachings.
• Just like identifying counterfeit money, we must understand the biblical qualifications for pastors to discern unhealthy leadership. Most qualifications are based on character, not just skills. we often prioritize charismatic speakers, but Scripture highlights the importance of a pastor’s integrity, relationships, and spiritual life.
• Pastors must have a structure of accountability, like elders or deacons, who regularly check in on their personal and spiritual lives. Isolated pastors without accountability are in dangerous positions.
• It’s important to differentiate between personal preferences and clear sin when dealing with church leaders. Not every disagreement is a sign of sin.
• If a pastor refuses to repent privately, there is a biblical precedent for public confrontation. This isn’t gossip but a necessary step when sin is unaddressed.
• Congregants need to be in the Word to recognize false teaching. Knowing Scripture personally helps you validate what is taught in the church. We all have a role to play in studying the Bible. Don’t rely solely on Sunday sermons; engage with Scripture personally to grow in faith and discernment.
• Even when hurt by leadership, we are called to forgive. Holding onto bitterness can hinder spiritual growth, even if the pastor never seeks reconciliation.
• When dealing with victims of pastoral abuse, it's important to start with compassion, just as Jesus showed in Matthew 9. Even if a victim’s reaction may not be Christlike, their hurt is valid and should be acknowledged and heard with patience.
• The book of Jude offers vital guidance on addressing false leaders who misuse their authority. We must protect other victims while maintaining a spirit of mercy, and avoiding bitterness or vindictiveness.
• Even when justice feels delayed, God remains faithful. Trust that He will bring justice in His timing.

• Don't be afraid to ask good questions
• Share the resources at TheFocusedPastor.org
• Pray for your pastors

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This week on Real Talk with Rachael I'm having a conversation with Dr. Robert Paul. Robert Paul is Vice President of the Focus on the Family Marriage Institute. He is both a marriage therapist and an accomplished speaker who presents regularly at professional conferences and enrichment events both nationally and internationally. He has co-authored six books, including “The DNA of Relationships,” with Drs. Gary and Greg Smalley, and “9 Lies That Will Destroy Your Marriage: And the truths that will save it and set it free,” with Dr. Greg Smalley. He is a former professor at Evangel University where he taught in both the biblical studies and psychology departments, specializing in Marriage and Family Counseling, Human Sexuality, and the integration of faith into all areas of life. Bob and his wife, Jenni, live in Springfield, Mo., have been married for over 43 years. They have four children and seven grandchildren.

• Addressing deep-seated desires and achieving relational success offers relief and freedom.
• Recognizing and breaking the reactive cycle in relationships can empower individuals to improve their dynamics by understanding and halting predictable conflict patterns.
• Group support can provide reassurance that marital challenges are universal and not unique.
• Faith and personal transformation, as highlighted by Robert's and his wife's journey, play a crucial role in sustaining relationships.
• Utilizing available resources for counseling and self-improvement, such as those mentioned in the episode, can be immensely helpful.
• Emotions are morally neutral and serve a purpose in signaling areas needing attention; understanding this helps in better managing them.
• The care cycle emphasizes the importance of balancing personal care with nurturing the relationship, leading to healthier interactions.
• Practical advice on nurturing oneself and the relationship, including suggestions for summer activities and self-care strategies.
• Recognizing the subtleties of negative thoughts and maintaining a 'no losers policy' promotes a healthier team dynamic in marriage.
• The need to build trust and address past relationship baggage and family influences for better current interactions.

• Take the Reactive Cycle Assessment
• Catch up on previous episodes
• Create a summer "being" list

You can find a list of Christian counselors at The American Association of Christian Counselors or through Focus on the Family’s Christian Counselor Network.
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Connect with Dr. Paul: website
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