In today's episode, Lisa and Mike delve into common misconceptions and myths surrounding laser treatments and skin cooling techniques. They discuss the fallacy that skin cooling can overcool hair follicles during hair removal, the importance of proper cooling for blood vessel treatments, and the misconceptions about spot sizes in tattoo laser treatments. The duo also addresses the critical need for safety glasses during procedures involving Q-Switch ND YAG lasers, emphasising the dangers of low fluence and the necessity of eye protection for both practitioners and clients.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• It is a misconception that skin cooling can overcool hair follicles during hair removal treatments. In fact, the concentration of melanin in hair is significantly higher than in the surrounding skin, allowing for effective heating of the hair follicle even if the skin is cooled.

• When treating blood vessels, pre-cooling the skin is beneficial, but it is important to allow warm blood to flow back into the area before targeting the vessels. This ensures that the blood is at normal body temperature, while the surrounding tissue remains cooler, enhancing treatment effectiveness.

• Pulling the handpiece further back when using a tattoo laser with a lens is a common misconception. The handpiece is designed to deliver the correct spot size and fluence when in contact with the skin, and pulling it away can lead to unpredictable spot sizes and potentially harmful fluences.

• The SHR technique requires multiple passes over the same area to build up temperature effectively. It is incorrect to assume that a single pass is sufficient, as repeated passes at lower fluences are necessary to achieve the desired results.

• It is critical to wear proper safety glasses during laser treatments, including Q-Switch ND YAG lasers used in carbon facials. Even low fluences can produce extremely high power densities, making eye protection essential to prevent potential damage.

BEST MOMENTS

"So, in actual fact, with the numbers on this, obviously, if you've got black hair in Caucasian skin, then the concentration of melanin is about something like 23 times more concentrated in the hair than in the skin."

"The only time that it might be a problem is if you're treating superficial benign pigmentation."

"If you start pulling the handpiece away, you don't know what the spot size is, right?"

"You absolutely must wear the proper safety glasses."

"If you've been taught that way, please, please, please start wearing glasses."

ABOUT THE HOSTS

Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru.

Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring.

Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining

https://mikemurphyblog.com

https://www.dermalasetraining.com

This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/

In this episode, Mike and Lisa delve into the fascinating world of physics as it relates to lasers and skin treatments. They break down complex concepts such as absorption, scattering, and anisotropy in a way that's easy to understand, even for a five-year-old. Through engaging examples, they explain how photons interact with atoms, leading to either absorption or scattering, and how this affects the effectiveness of different wavelengths in laser treatments.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• When photons encounter atoms, they can either be absorbed or scattered. Absorption occurs when the energy of a photon matches the energy required for an electron to jump to a higher orbital, while scattering happens when the photon does not match this energy and is redirected.

• Absorbed photons increase the energy of the atom, leading to a higher vibrational state, which is perceived as heat. In contrast, scattered photons do not contribute to heating the atom but can create new photons of the same energy.

• Different wavelengths of light have varying absorption coefficients for different materials. For example, green ink absorbs red light well but poorly absorbs green light, making it ineffective to use green light on green ink in tattoo removal.

• Scattering is influenced by anisotropy, which refers to the directionality of scattered photons. High anisotropy means photons tend to scatter in the same direction as the incoming light, while low anisotropy results in more random scattering, affecting how deeply light penetrates the skin.

• The effectiveness of laser treatments, such as hair removal, is influenced by the wavelength used and the fluence (energy per unit area). Lower wavelengths tend to be more aggressive and can cause more damage to the upper layers of the skin due to their strong absorption in melanin and limited penetration depth.

BEST MOMENTS

"If the energy of the photon matches one of those transitions, then that atom can absorb that photon."

"When light enters your eyeball and it hits the retina, somehow you perceive colour."

"You could have something which strongly absorbs red lights, but doesn't like blue light."

"Absorption is the warm atom and a new photon is scattering."

"Blue light will generate much more damage in the epidermis compared to, say, red light."

ABOUT THE HOSTS

Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru.

Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring.

Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining

https://mikemurphyblog.com

https://www.dermalasetraining.com

This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/

Today, Lisa and Mike delve into the ongoing debate surrounding Intense Pulsed Light (IPL) technology versus lasers. They discuss common misconceptions about IPLs, such as their perceived lack of strength and penetration compared to lasers, and highlight the versatility of IPLs in treating various skin concerns. Additionally, they explore the emerging trend of Broadband Light (BBL) treatments, questioning how they differ from traditional IPLs.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• IPL (Intense Pulsed Light) is not a laser; it uses a broad spectrum of light wavelengths, while lasers emit light at a specific wavelength. This difference allows IPLs to be more versatile in treating various skin concerns by using different filters.

• Despite common misconceptions, IPLs can be effective for various treatments, including hair removal, acne, and skin rejuvenation, provided they are used correctly and by trained professionals.

• Many practitioners using IPL technology may lack proper training, leading to ineffective treatments. Understanding the technology and its applications is crucial for achieving good results.

• Effective cooling is essential during IPL treatments to manage the heat generated in the skin. Many IPL systems do not adequately cool the skin, which can lead to discomfort and suboptimal results.

• Broadband Light (BBL) is often marketed as a more advanced version of IPL, but both technologies operate on similar principles. The differences in marketing claims often lack substantial evidence, and both can be effective depending on their specifications and usage.

BEST MOMENTS

"IPLs are not lasers. Okay. They're not. That's fine."

"The problem is that a lot of these systems will have water cooling, but not to cool the skin."

"Fundamentally, IPLs, diodes, YAGs and Alexandrite lasers, they're all doing exactly the same thing."

"I was genuinely surprised because I had gone in with a prejudice, and then my prejudice was completely turned over."

ABOUT THE HOSTS

Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru.

Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring.

Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining

https://mikemurphyblog.com

https://www.dermalasetraining.com

Today, Mike and Lisa investigate the most common concerns surrounding laser hair removal, as discussed in various online forums. They explore the concept of paradoxical hypertrichosis, synchronised hair growth, and the effects of laser treatments on hair colour, including the potential for hair to appear grey or lighter.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• There is a common misconception that laser hair removal can cause paradoxical hypertrichosis, where hair grows in areas that previously had none. However, many reports of increased hair growth after treatment are likely due to synchronised hair growth, which occurs when hair follicles are treated with insufficient energy, causing them to enter a synchronised growth phase.

• The effectiveness of laser hair removal is highly dependent on the fluence (energy level) used during treatment. Using a sub-lethal fluence can lead to ineffective results, where hair follicles survive and regrow, while using an appropriate fluence can effectively target and destroy the follicles.

• Some clients worry that laser treatments can cause their hair to turn grey or white. This is often attributed to the natural ageing process rather than the laser itself, as lasers target melanin in hair. If melanin is disrupted, it may lead to temporary changes in hair colour, but new hair growth should return to its original colour.

• Scarring can occur if the laser treatment is too aggressive, using excessive fluence without adequate cooling. Ice burns can also happen if ice packs are applied directly from the freezer without allowing them to thaw slightly. Proper cooling techniques are essential to prevent damage to the skin.

• Both conditions can arise from laser treatments. Hyperpigmentation occurs when melanocytes are stimulated to produce excess melanin, while hypopigmentation happens when these cells are destroyed. Individual factors such as skin type, medication, and sun exposure can influence these risks, making it crucial for clients to discuss their concerns with trained professionals.

BEST MOMENTS

"Paradoxical hypertrichosis occurs when some of these follicles come into action and start growing hairs in places that they previously didn't."

"I get a lot of people saying, um, well, they, they, they won't start laser because they're worried that it'll just grow back thicker. But I'm like, if that happens, they're doing it wrong."

"If you remove the follicle, it will work, of course, because then it doesn't matter what the hormones are doing."

"Maybe you just got grey hair. I don't know. Maybe it just came in and it's grey and the laser will not be absorbed into the grey hair."

"The biggest risk is poor training, which will lead inevitably to poor results."

ABOUT THE HOSTS

Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru.

Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring.

Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining

https://mikemurphyblog.com

https://www.dermalasetraining.com

In today's episode, Mike and Lisa look at the complexities of safely and effectively treating deeper skin tones, particularly those with higher melanin concentrations. They discuss the importance of understanding how melanin affects laser treatments, noting that darker skin absorbs more energy, which can lead to increased risks of cellular damage and pain. Both Mike and Lisa challenge common misconceptions about using lower fluences for darker skin, advocating instead for higher fluences combined with enhanced cooling techniques to achieve optimal results.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Darker skin has a higher concentration of melanin throughout the epidermis, which absorbs more light energy from lasers, potentially leading to increased temperatures and a higher risk of cellular damage.

• Contrary to common training advice, using lower fluence and longer pulse widths on darker skin can be counterproductive. Lowering fluence reduces the total energy available for treatment, making it less effective.

• The ND:YAG laser at 1064 nanometers is preferred for treating darker skin tones because it is absorbed less by melanin, allowing more energy to reach the dermis where treatment is needed.

• Increased cooling time is essential when treating darker skin to mitigate the higher temperatures generated by increased melanin absorption. Recommended cooling times may be longer for darker skin compared to lighter skin.

• Practitioners should exercise caution when treating darker skin tones, especially if they are inexperienced. It is advisable to gain more experience before attempting treatments on darker skin to ensure safety and effectiveness.

BEST MOMENTS

"Darker skin has more melanin than lighter skin. In lighter skin tones, we tend to find most of the melanin resides in the basal layer."

"Lowering the fluence is a bad idea. That's just never going to work. You'll end up doing many, many more treatments and you might never get a good result."

"If you're going to use high fluences, then you must use much more cooling to compensate before and after the treatments."

"The melanin is a barrier, yes, essentially, and it steals energy."

"As the skin tone gets darker, you just got to be much more careful. That's basically it in a nutshell."

ABOUT THE HOSTS

Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru.

Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring.

Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining

https://mikemurphyblog.com

https://www.dermalasetraining.com

In this episode, Mike and Lisa delve into a concerning trend in the laser and IPL industry: the potential capping of fluence output by machine manufacturers. They discuss recent experiences shared by practitioners who found their machines unable to deliver the higher fluences promised in their manuals, raising questions about the implications for treatment efficacy. Mike and Lisa advocate for the need to empower users with the ability to access the full potential of their devices, rather than imposing arbitrary limits that could hinder results.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• There is a growing concern in the industry regarding laser suppliers potentially capping the fluence output of their machines, which may limit practitioners' ability to achieve optimal results.

• Limiting the fluence can significantly affect treatment outcomes, particularly in procedures like hair removal and vascular treatments, where higher fluences are often necessary for effective results.

• The practice of capping machine outputs suggests a lack of trust in practitioners' abilities and highlights the need for better training. Proper training should empower users to operate machines at their full potential safely.

• The analogy of buying a car that is limited to a certain speed illustrates the frustration practitioners may feel when they are sold equipment that cannot perform to its advertised specifications.

• Effective cooling techniques are crucial when using higher fluences. Practitioners should be trained to understand the balance between delivering effective energy and ensuring patient safety through proper cooling methods.

BEST MOMENTS

"Are laser suppliers capping the amount of fluence that their machines are putting out for their clients or the practitioners?"

"It's kind of like the manufacturer saying, well, we don't trust you to use the machine to its full capacity."

"If you're being limited in what you can deliver to the skin, then that will limit your results, no doubt about it."

"If the company is selling you a machine and they are either capping or limiting it, then the company is not providing you with the proper service."

"It shows a lack of trust in your customers, and it also shows, to me, a lack of proper training."

ABOUT THE HOSTS

Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru.

Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring.

Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining

https://mikemurphyblog.com

https://www.dermalasetraining.com

In this episode, Mike and Lisa delve into a recent critique of their training methods regarding laser hair removal, specifically addressing concerns raised by a laser supplier about their promotion of higher fluences and external cooling techniques. Mike & Lisa clarify the science behind pulse widths, fluences, and the importance of targeting stem cells rather than just the hair itself. Mike and Lisa also touch on the implications of using higher fluences on handpiece longevity and the overall effectiveness of treatments, encouraging practitioners to prioritize results and client satisfaction.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• The relationship between pulse width and fluence is crucial in laser hair removal. A higher fluence can lead to longer pulse widths, but the key factor is ensuring that the energy delivered is sufficient to heat the stem cells effectively, regardless of the pulse width.

• Pre-cooling the skin with ice packs before treatment can significantly reduce pain and the risk of unwanted side effects, such as blistering and pigmentation changes. This allows practitioners to use higher fluences safely.

• The denaturation time, which is the time required to irreversibly damage the target cells, is more critical than the pulse width alone. The temperature and duration of exposure are what ultimately determine the effectiveness of the treatment.

• The podcast discusses criticism of their training methods, particularly regarding the use of higher fluences. They argue that using higher fluences with proper cooling leads to better results, even if it may reduce the lifespan of the handpieces.

• There are common misconceptions in the industry about starting with low fluences and gradually increasing them. The podcast emphasizes the importance of starting at the correct fluency from the beginning to achieve effective results without unnecessary delays.

BEST MOMENTS

"We promote skin cooling, higher fluence, which in diodes equals longer pulse width. They're saying that will be bad for the treatment because they believe you should have a short pulse width."

"If you use a lower fluence, that means you're firing in less energy. And less energy means lower temperatures. Lower temperatures mean you need much longer times to cook the cells."

"The temperature of the hair is, like I said, pretty much irrelevant. What is important is getting the right amount of energy into the hair."

"If you're going to end up sitting there with a lot of disgruntled clients... then that's not good for your business or your reputation."

"The higher the fluence, the shorter the time you need to denature the cells. And that's why the pulse width becomes unimportant."

ABOUT THE HOSTS

Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru.

Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring.

Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining

https://mikemurphyblog.com

https://www.dermalasetraining.com

In this episode, Mike and Lisa interview Caroline McLean, an advanced skin practitioner from Skinology in Glasgow, who shares her extensive 20-year experience in the industry. They discuss Caroline's unique approach to using IPL for pigmentation, which contrasts with Mike and Lisa's established protocols. Caroline elaborates on her combination therapies, including the use of a cold laser bionic and CO2 treatments.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Caroline McLean utilises a unique IPL protocol for treating pigmentation, which involves higher fluence settings and double passes, contrasting with traditional methods. This approach allows for immediate darkening of the pigment, indicating effective treatment.

• Cooling the skin before, during, and after IPL treatments is crucial. Caroline emphasises the need for thorough cooling to minimise erythema and edema, ensuring client comfort and optimal results.

• Clients are advised on aftercare, including cooling the skin, avoiding acids and retinoids, and using recovery balm. This helps manage expectations regarding the healing process and potential side effects like tenderness and swelling.

• Caroline integrates various treatments, such as LED therapy (Dermalux) post-IPL, to enhance healing and monitor skin reactions. This holistic approach combines skincare, lifestyle factors, and treatment modalities for better outcomes.

• A significant part of Caroline's practice involves educating clients about their skin conditions, treatment processes, and realistic outcomes. This includes discussing the importance of skin preparation and the potential need for multiple sessions to achieve desired results.

BEST MOMENTS

"I will usually do two passes and kind of cross hatch them. I want to see that pigment getting darker."

"I don't treat darker skin tones, so I wouldn't treat any sort of Asian skin tones or any mixed skin tone with an IPL."

"The biggest combination therapy is combining your skincare with your treatments with your lifestyle and your holistic sort of side of it as well."

"I want to know how they're going to respond to something. If they then come back to me and their skin is not recovering, then that's on me."

"I think it would have to be my severe inflammatory acne clients, being able to help somebody heal their skin is pretty amazing."

ABOUT THE HOSTS

Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru.

Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring.

Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining

https://mikemurphyblog.com

https://www.dermalasetraining.com