Welcome back to In Demand!

In this episode, Asia and Kim take on three topics founders don’t talk about enough: how to listen for insight during customer research, what it really looks like to run a fast-moving (but focused) marketing team, and the difference between great managers and great leaders.

Whether you're hiring your first team, navigating leadership, or trying to pull messaging clarity from customer interviews, this one will hit home.

Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here.

Links:

• DemandMaven
• Bob Moesta (Jobs to Be Done)
• Examples of great leaders:
  • Steve McLeod - founder of Feature Upvote
  • Josh Ho – founder of Referral Rock
  • Rand Fishkin – CEO of SparkToro
• The Captain Class by Sam Walker

• (00:01:00) - The difference in how Asia listens during customer research interviews.
• (00:06:30) - Your prospects might be comparing you to solutions you aren't aware of.
• (00:08:27) - Once you start noticing a pattern, look at the behaviors that the pattern is leading to.
• (00:10:45) - What’s a value theme, and how can you use them to attract better-fitting customers?
• (00:15:50) - How Asia turns research insights into actual team priorities.
• (00:20:30) - What it really looks like to operate as a fractional CMO.
• (00:24:20) - Inside a product marketing launch: managing briefs, ownership, and execution.
• (00:31:55) - Leadership vs. management: what’s the difference, and what are the traits of good managers vs. the traits of good leaders?
• (00:42:00) - What makes someone a visionary, and how does that fit into leadership and management?
• (00:46:00) - Personal examples: Asia’s mom as a bank manager, Kim’s thoughts on captains and coaches.

What happens when the market wants one thing, but you want to build something else?

In this episode of the In Demand Podcast, Asia and Kim unpack the emotional tension founders face when their product attracts a different kind of customer than they originally set out to serve.

From internal conflict to organizational confusion, they explore how this misalignment can quietly stall growth and what it takes to move forward with clarity.

Got a question you'd like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here.

Links:

DemandMaven

Dr. Sherry Walling

The Entrepreneur’s Guide to Keeping Your Shit Together by Sherry and Rob Walling

• (00:03:00) - When your product grows in a direction you didn’t intend.
• (00:05:40) - The founder-product conflict: There is a new segment of the market that is growing and more important, but you’re not as excited to serve them.
• (00:11:30) - When you are serving multiple segments, you eventually face a choice on which segment you will focus your product.
• (00:14:40) - How this tension has shown up in the history of DemandMaven and how they've adapted to it.
• (00:15:11) - Start by mapping your options and the trade-offs of each. But if you want to move forward, you've got to make peace with the trade-offs.
• (00:19:00) - You can commit to one path and still pivot later. Decisions are not permanent.
• (00:21:40) - Not choosing a clear direction is what kills momentum. Committing to one path, even if it's not the best path, will almost certainly be better than thrashing between options.
• (00:24:25) - What keeps founders stuck: emotional attachment, ego, identity, fear, and discomfort.
• (00:28:05) - The conflict has to be resolved. Staying stuck drains time, energy, and growth.
• (00:31:00) - Resource: Dr. Sherry Walling’s work on founder emotional health.

When does it make sense to bring on a Fractional CMO, and what should you expect from one?

In this episode, Asia and Kim dig into the ins and outs of Fractional CMOs: what they do, when to hire one, how they’re different from heads of marketing or full-time CMOs, and the biggest risks and rewards founders should know.

Asia also reflects on her current work as a Fractional CMO and shares how she approaches structure, team-building, and strategy without getting stuck in the weeds.

Got a question you'd like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here.

• (00:02:05) - Fractional vs. full-time: what’s the difference and when does each make sense?
• (00:03:30) - A CMO’s core responsibilities: budget, strategy, and team.
• (00:05:30) - You don’t need a team in place already to hire a CMO, but you do need budget and runway.
• (00:07:00) - Heads of marketing often get hired like CMOs, but they’re not the same.
• (00:11:45) - A head of marketing thinks in channels, whereas a CMO thinks in markets, products, and investment strategy.
• (00:13:45) - Product marketing, demand gen, hiring, retention, and outsourcing are important parts of a CMO's responsibilities.
• (00:16:15) - Attribution and analytics, even if it's messy, is something that a CMO should take ownership of.
• (00:21:30) - You might need a CMO if you’re making investments that aren’t paying off and no one’s connecting the dots.
• (00:23:15) - Trial periods are worthwhile when you're hiring for a CMO role since hiring the wrong person in a c-level role is costly.
• (00:26:50) - There are different types of CMOs, some are more visionary and others are more operational.
• (00:33:15) - The biggest thing to monitor with a fractional role is if marketing falls behind because there isn't a full-time leader.
• (00:36:00) - Less time can lead to more focus. A great fractional CMO will have a high level of clarity about priorities.

Growth isn’t just marketing. And if you’re stuck and growth isn’t happening, you’ll need to look beyond marketing and acquisition.

In this episode of the In Demand Podcast, Asia and Kim break down what it means to troubleshoot growth. They explain how growth work goes beyond campaigns and into retention, expansion, pricing, onboarding, and more.

Plus, they dive into how product marketing overlaps and differs from growth and why founders often under-invest in the real levers that move growth.

Got a question you'd like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here.

• (00:01:44) - Growth marketing vs. head of growth: very different roles.
• (00:04:47) - A head of growth looks across the whole business, not just marketing.
• (00:05:40) - An early mistake founders often make is to focus only on marketing and acquisition when they are trying to solve growth problems.
• (00:08:07) - The moment Asia realized marketing wasn’t enough and how that led her into growth.
• (00:12:40) - Troubleshooting growth means identifying why growth is slow or stuck.
• (00:15:00) - Step by step on troubleshooting growth and benchmarks that matter.
• (00:22:45) - Troubleshooting = identifying root causes and giving you a clear plan to fix them.
• (00:30:30) - Product marketing overlaps with growth, but it's not the same job.
• (00:35:56) - Recap of what differences exist between a product marketer, a VP of growth, and a marketer.

Most SaaS companies hit growth plateaus, and too many founders assume the problem is either unsolvable or too complex to fix. In reality, that's rarely true.

In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim unpack how to shift your mindset from "This can't be solved" to "Who's already solved this, and how can I learn from them?"

They also introduce CUES, a prioritization framework that helps you focus on the right growth ideas instead of spinning your wheels.

Got a question you'd like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here.

• (00:00:55) - Why founders often treat growth problems like they’re unsolvable.
• (00:05:22) - There are a lot of founders creating pain for themselves by trying to reinvent the wheel.
• (00:08:02) - Almost every single growth problem has been solved before, you just need to find the people who did it.
• (00:09:00) - Books, articles, and experts: where to actually look for answers.
• (00:14:10) - Learning enough to get started and putting your knowledge into practice.
• (00:19:15) - One of the things founders need to be able to do at a high level is understand trade offs.
• (00:24:00) - What does the process look like for troubleshooting growth?
• (00:25:00) - What net revenue retention tells you and how to find and use it in ProfitWell.
• (00:34:00) - Spotting the levers: activation, positioning, and pricing.
• (00:39:00) - Prioritization traps: why common frameworks like ICE often fail.
• (00:42:55) - Try CUES instead: Confidence, Understanding, Ease, and Speed.
• (00:55:05) - Recapping what was covered on this episode.

Hiring for marketing is hard, especially when you’re a technical founder. If you’ve never worked closely with marketers, how can you confidently hire one?

In this episode of the In Demand Podcast, Asia and Kim break down why marketing hires are so tricky for SaaS founders.

They walk through the differences between strategic leaders vs executors, how to define the role you really need, and why under-hiring is one of the biggest mistakes founders make.

Got a question you'd like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here.

• (00:01:10) - Why is hiring for marketing so hard (especially when you're a technical founder)?
• (00:05:00) - Don’t base your hiring benchmark on celebrity marketers.
• (00:06:50) - Sometimes the people who are best at self-promotion aren't the best at marketing your business.
• (00:09:55) - Start by defining your fully loaded marketing budget and if it's possible for you to afford a quality full-time hire.
• (00:12:30) - Strategic vs. tactical hires: What kind of marketer do you need?
• (00:17:30) - Why experience with a similar company in a similar stage is critical.
• (00:20:33) - You can’t spot fit from a resume; you must dig in during interviews and think about how you will work with this person.
• (00:29:30) - VC vs. bootstrapped: know who your role will attract.
• (00:35:05) - Consider overseas talent as there are great marketers at much more competitive salaries
• (00:38:00) - Use the Rule of 40 to assess when you're ready to hire.
• (00:43:00) - Successful ROI on a marketing hire is not only about growth rate, it's also about creating a qualitative impact, like freeing up the founder to have a higher impact.

Hey founders! Asia here Got a burning marketing or growth question you'd like us to unpack on the podcast? Well now you can slide into our voicemail and drop an audio message covering your exact question. Just pop on over to our voicemail app by clicking here and leave us a message or if you'd prefer to write us something, email us at podcast@demandmaven.io

Here are a few ideas you can ask us to get the wheels turning:

- Should I require a credit card on signup or not?
- I've been struggling with activation of my product. What should I do?
- I'm torn between these two customer segments. Help!
- How should I be thinking about using (insert marketing channel here)?
- What are some ways I can manage my marketing team?
- What are some KPIs / OKRs we should be tracking for growth or marketing?
- How do I know if this feature is ready to be launched?
- What are some clever ways we can use case studies?
- I can't tell if we should kill this plan we're offering or not. How should we decide?

As so much more! Make sure to give us context you feel comfortable sharing and let us know if you'd prefer to be anonymous! Thank you as always for being a listener!

Welcome to the new season of In Demand! For this season, Asia is joined by her new co-host Kim Talarczyk the Client Services Manager at DemandMaven!

In this first episode of the season, Asia and Kim discuss recent conferences like MicroConf and Indie Founders, highlighting the value of founder communities and the insights from conversations with founders. They cover how DemandMaven is changing and new projects, like Asia’s work as a fractional CMO, and how the changing tech paradigm is changing businesses in 2025.

Got a question you'd like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here.

• (00:02:07) - Meet the New Co-Host: Kim Talarczyk
• (00:08:39) - What Asia learned from her experience at Indie Founders
• (00:14:00) - Reflections from initial experiences as a fractional CMO
• (00:16:00) - The tension that often exists within founder CEOs
• (00:19:00) - What makes a good CEO (and why founders often aren't best at CEO work)
• (00:27:00) - Planning in unpredictable times
• (00:30:00) - Why acquisitions are an important signal of industry changes
• (00:34:25) - Delta's 100 year anniversary and decade long trends
• (00:41:15) - The power of podcasts and the challenge of creating when it can feel like you're talking into a vacuum
• (00:48:30) - Future plans for In Demand