In this episode I spoke to Nigel Banks, Technical Director at Octopus Energy. Nigel is author of Fabric Fifth which many now see as the common sense approach to retrofitting and decarbonising homes.

Nigel spoke in a personal capacity. I was extremely grateful he came on the show. I have been critical of Octopus in certain regards but am also well aware they are doing important work. It was a pleasure to have Nigel speak on my show.

I also chatted with Dan Kelly, Managing Director at Dartmoor Energy. Dan has nine years experience with heat pump systems as well as being a qualified PAS2035 retrofit coordinator and assessor.

For me, the episode helps illustrate that the fa bric first mantra has possibly led the UK down the wrong path. And it could be argued there has been a waste of Government funds, essentially tax payers money.

The most vehement of fabric first advocates, to me, clearly do not understand why the forefathers of thermodynamics got excited about heat pumps: things which used work to do heat rather than things which use heat to do work. The former being able to reach well above the 100 percent efficiency cap of the later.

It highlights how many are not taking ownership of their own learning and understanding what people like Lord Kelvin knew back in 1852.

It has been far too easy for people to disseminate "fabric first". Quite honestly it is often laziness and highlights a lack of professional development

It is totally understandable that consumers do not understand the science of heat but for those involved in the discourse, especially if they are being paid and funded via money from the tax payer they need to take ownership of their own learning and bring them selves up to speed.

What's discussed:

• UKREiiF event, and lack of heat pump knowledge
• Framework lists for Social Housing and Local Authorities
• Conflicts of interest regarding PAS2035
• Cavity Wall Insulation (and Zone 4)
• LA's are stuck between a rock and a hard place
• Heat Pump Optimisers such as Passiv UK and Homely
• Tackling fuel poverty at scale
• The able to pay market vs the fuel poverty market
• Trust Mark - does it work? Possibly not
• Unconscious incompetence

I'd like to thank Grundfos for sponsoring this season of BetaTalk

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