In this episode, we eyeball AI. It’s time to demystify what Artificial intelligence actually is and get to grips with the keyunion-building issues associated with this so-called “5th Industrial Revolution”

Our discussion is made credible with the help of our guestand AI expert, Adam Cantwell-Corn. And Adam’s starting point is that “we need to not exceptionalise AI….it’s a pay and conditions issue.”

So far so clear, but how do we make unions and unionbuilding the “champions of a positive technological future?” What does a just tech transition look like – because “if deskilling is the result, where will our bargainingpower be?” And what would be good regulation?

The answers to these visceral questions emerge during afascinating ramble across the AI landscape – taking nebulous concepts and seeing how they apply to issues that are here now: surge pricing, body-worn camera and advanced, accelerated data processing.

From cab drivers to teachers to legal aid solicitors, welook at how unions are already engaging with AI at the levels of design and decision-making not just deployment – and why this needs to happen far more than it currently does.

So much of the talk about AI is deliberately obscure – thatends here. All you need to do is lend us your ears for 30 minutes!

As ever, the discussion is calm, measured and derived from a combined 80 years plus of union activism. Where we disagree, we do so amicably. But there’s no getting away from the importance or relevance of this debate.

We’re grateful to have the support of Thompsons, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The General Federation of Trade Unions - delivering trade union education,building solidarity and the home of StrikeMap, Pellacraft, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council. Thank you all.

Episode run time 33m10s. Organising For A Change ispresented by Martin Smith and Simon Sapper. Music is by Scott Holmes. It is a Makes-You-Think production. Contact the show at organising@makes-you-think.com. This episode was first published on 28 March 2025. Next episode drops 11 April.