In this episode of Disordered, the guys tackle one of the most misunderstood concepts in anxiety recovery: healing. Sparked by a listener question about balancing relationships with anxiety recovery work, the hosts dive deep into what healing anxiety really means - and what it doesn't.

The Problem with "Healing" Language

Drew and Josh explore how the word "healing" can be problematic in anxiety recovery, often implying that people are broken and need fixing. They discuss how healing anxiety culture can keep people trapped in endless cycles of inward focus and compulsive self-improvement.

Real vs. Imaginary Healing

There is a difference between meaningful healing (like processing grief or trauma) versus the endless pursuit of healing anxiety symptoms. They emphasize that anxiety disorders often require learning and skill development rather than traditional healing approaches.

Living vs. Healing

A central theme emerges: in anxiety recovery, we don't heal to live - we live to heal. The hosts challenge the notion that extensive inner work must precede living your life, suggesting that engaging in meaningful activities IS the recovery process.

Timestamps:

4:30 - Why no one gets to define healing for you

8:00 - The "resource gathering" compulsion trap

13:40 - How healing language can keep you stuck

16:00 - The dangers of AI-driven anxiety advice

21:40 - When healing actually makes sense in therapy

26:30 - Why being "already healed" might be the answer

29:00 - The never-ending healing journey problem

33:00 - Self-development vs. living your life

The hosts suggest that many people struggling with anxiety may already be "healed" - they're simply learning to navigate life without anxiety being center stage. Rather than endless healing pursuits, recovery often involves doing less inner work and more actual living. The episode challenges popular wellness narratives while maintaining hope for genuine recovery through practical, reality-based approaches.

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Disordered Roundtables are here! Think of it as "Disordered Live", a way for members of our audience to spend time with us in an intimate virtual setting (attendance is limited) to engage in real time sharing and discussion on specific anxiety disorder and recovery topics. To be notified when new Disordered Roundtable sessions are scheduled, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠visit our homepage and get on our mailing list⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

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Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.

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Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.

Ever feel trapped in cycles of rumination, overthinking, and constant mental chatter about your anxiety? In this episode, Drew and Josh tackle the challenging question of how to "get out of your own head" without turning it into another exhausting battle.

Starting with a thoughtful question from a listener who has built an impressive life despite ongoing anxiety and DPDR but still struggles with constant internal focus, the hosts explore why simply trying to stop thinking doesn't work and what actually does.

Key topics covered include:

• Why "getting out of your head" doesn't mean eliminating anxious thoughts
• The difference between coexisting with thoughts versus fighting them
• How to make anxiety the "least interesting thing in the room"
• Understanding when overthinking becomes a compulsion rather than helpful problem-solving
• Practical strategies for redirecting attention while allowing difficult feelings
• The role of willful tolerance in breaking rumination cycles

The episode features inspiring "did it anyway" stories from listeners conquering agoraphobia with solo travel and managing postpartum OCD intrusive thoughts during daily caregiving tasks.

Drew and Josh also address the tricky balance between attention redirection techniques and emotional avoidance, offering guidance for those working with metacognitive therapy approaches.

Key Timestamps:

[02:30] - Listener question about staying out of your own head

[07:30] - Josh's detailed narrative of what being "in your head" actually sounds like

[12:50] - Making anxiety the least interesting thing in the room

[15:50] - The attention "flashlight" metaphor and experimentation approach

[17:00] - Josh's YouTube banner analogy for intrusive thoughts

[18:40] - Addressing GAD and the belief that thinking is always helpful

[25:00] - Powerful "did it anyway" story about postpartum OCD

[29:00] - The role of distraction and attention flexibility

[33:40] - Listener question about balancing allowing feelings vs. attention redirection

This episode emphasizes that recovery isn't about achieving a thought-free mind, but rather developing a healthier relationship with your internal experience while engaging meaningfully with your life.---

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Disordered Roundtables are here! Think of it as "Disordered Live", a way for members of our audience to spend time with us in an intimate virtual setting (attendance is limited) to engage in real time sharing and discussion on specific anxiety disorder and recovery topics. To be notified when new Disordered Roundtable sessions are scheduled, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠visit our homepage and get on our mailing list⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

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Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.

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Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.

What If I Want To Control My Anxiety Holistically?

In this episode, Drew and Josh examine tension between wanting to control anxiety through holistic approaches and recognizing when that desire for control becomes part of the problem itself.

Key Topics Discussed:

• The difference between actual control and the illusion of control
• How the wellness and self-optimization industry can exploit anxiety sufferers
• Why treating anxiety as a threat teaches your brain to keep the alarm system activated
• The gray area between healthy self-care and anxiety-driven fixing behaviors
• How to recognize when "wellness" strategies become safety behaviors

Important Timestamps:

00:00 - A listener from Switzerland asks about holistic control strategies and when it feels like she can control things

02:30 - Introduction to the control illusion concept

04:20 - Drew explains the critical difference between knowing and controlling

5:45 - Josh's "why" question - examining motivations behind wellness pursuits

8:15- How your threat response learns from your control behaviors

11:45- Personal stories: Josh's magnesium bath experience and Drew's supplement journey

14:30 - The meditation paradox - using mindfulness as exposure vs. control

16:00- Drew's mini-rant about the billion-dollar wellness industry

21:15 - Did It Anyway: A listener's birthday triumph (train, crowds, and dating)

22:30- The Dr. Oz example of entertainment vs. medicine

31:45- The compatibility question: Can you pursue both control and acceptance?

35:00- Josh's "willful tolerance" exercise

39:00 - Did It Anyway: A listener conquers their emetophobia podcast fear

41:00 - First official announcement of the upcoming "Disordered Guide to Health Anxiety" book

Key Takeaways

The episode emphasizes that while basic wellness practices may be helpful, using them as anxiety control strategies often backfires. True recovery involves learning to be with difficult feelings rather than trying to eliminate them. The hosts stress the importance of asking "why" you're pursuing any wellness intervention - is it for general health or to avoid anxiety?

This episode offers practical guidance on distinguishing between healthy self-care and anxiety-driven control behaviors, helping listeners navigate the complex world of wellness marketing while staying focused on genuine recovery principles.

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Disordered Roundtables are here! Think of it as "Disordered Live", a way for members of our audience to spend time with us in an intimate virtual setting (attendance is limited) to engage in real time sharing and discussion on specific anxiety disorder and recovery topics. To be notified when new Disordered Roundtable sessions are scheduled, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠visit our homepage and get on our mailing list⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

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Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Worry and Rumination Explained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.

-----

Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.