In this episode, we focus on one of the most challenging problems generated by human technology: where can highly radioactive waste from nuclear energy production be safely disposed for the next one million years?

Through the lens of political geology, Dr. Rony Emmenegger tells the story of the long search for a deep geological repository in Switzerland (and beyond) and its crucial socio-political implications. He introduces us to the concept of passive safety, which builds on the idea that responsibility for radioactive waste can be delegated to geological formations underground to ensure safety in the long term. Given the widespread social and political attitude to rely on techno-scientific expertise, he urges us to move away from asking whether or not a problem can be solved – in this case by deep geological repositories – and to focus on what kind of science is actually involved.

Our guest, Rony Emmenegger, is a political geographer with a keen interest in the governance of human-environment relations. His work focuses on how knowledge of the deep geological underground is produced in the case of nuclear waste governance and how it is articulated and contested in the public sphere.

For additional resources and a deeper exploration of Rony’s work and views, please visit:

https://www.unifr.ch/geo/en/department/staff/research/people/239300/a2c19

https://www.unifr.ch/geo/humangeography/en/research/political-geology.html

https://data.snf.ch/grants/grant/220005

Further reading:

Emmenegger, R. (under revision): Nuclear Strata: Enacting Clay for the Deep Geological Disposal of Nuclear Waste in Switzerland, Environment and Planning E.

Emmenegger, R. (2021). Deep Time Horizons: Vincent Ialenti’s Deep Time Reckoning: How Future Thinking Can Help Earth Now. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press. Anthropocenes–Human, Inhuman, Posthuman, 2(1). https://www.anthropocenes.net/article/id/1015/

Hecht, G. (2014). Being Nuclear: Africans and the Global Uranium Trade. Cambridge (MA): MIT press.

Bobbette, A., Donovan, A. (2019). Political Geology: An Introduction. In: Bobbette, A., Donovan, A. (eds) Political Geology. Palgrave Macmillan, Cham. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-319-98189- 5_1

In this episode we look at the technofix narrative, its relationship to innovation and precaution, and ask why it has become so prevalent when it comes to addressing (socio-)ecological problems. We also discuss alternatives and why the complexity of living systems requires different approaches.

Our guest, Christine von Weizsäcker, is a biologist and President of Ecoropa – the European Network for Ecological Reflection and Action. She has been involved in the negotiations of the UN Convention on Biological Diversity, its Protocols and in the follow up to the Earth Summit in Rio for many years. She is a vocal advocate of the Rio principles of precaution, polluter-pays and public participation.

Christine introduces us to the important role that technofixes have played in environmental policy, which is linked to a narrow understanding of innovation. She calls for critical, i.e. differentiating, and multidisciplinary approaches. She also points to importance of considering long-term and far-reaching impacts of scientific and technological proposals that promise to solve singled out aspects of the multiple and interlinked current crises. Christine also shares valuable insights into the power of framing in public perception and politics.

For additional resources and a deeper exploration of Christine’s work and views, please visit:

https://www.ecoropa.info/

Further reading

von Weizsäcker, C. (2006). Precaution goes without saying, but comes with controversies. In: The Role of Precaution in GMO Policy. Austrian Ministry for Health and Women, Section IV, Forschungsberichte der Section IV, Band 6, Vienna, September 2006, pp. 7-16.

von Weizsäcker, C. (2022). RECIPES (EU Project: Reconciling Innovation and Precaution by Stakeholder Involvement) Final Conference, Intervention, 1st Panel „How to link innovation and precaution?“, 11 May 2022, Bruxelles. https://recipes-project.eu/sites/default/files/2022-05/CvW_2022%20RECIPES.pdf

Harremoës, P., Gee, D., MacGarvin, M., Stirling, A., Keys, J., Wynne, B., & Vaz, S. G. (2013). The precautionary principle in the 20th century: Late lessons from early warnings. European Environmental Agency (EEA Report 1/2013). https://www.eea.europa.eu/en/analysis/publications/late-lessons-2

Spektrum – Lexikon der Neurowissenschaft: Fehlerfreundlichkeit (2000).

Winner, L. (2010). The whale and the reactor: A search for limits in an age of high technology. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

Huesemann, M., & Huesemann, J. (2011). Techno-fix: Why technology won’t save us or the environment. Gabriola: New Society Publishers.

In this episode we look at a relatively old industrial fix: the use of nitrite—a toxic chemical—for curing processed meat on a large scale. It’s a compelling case study to explore how regulatory policies are shaped and the complex role science plays in that process.

Our guest, Dr. Jérôme Santolini, a biochemist and research director at the Institute for Integrative Biology of the Cell at the University of Paris-Saclay, heads the Oxidative Stress and Detoxification Laboratory. He tells us about the biotoxicological mechanisms behind using nitrite to preserve meat and uncovers the historical origins of why a known poison became a key tool in food preservation.

Jérôme sheds light on the intricate roles nitrites (and other nitric oxides) play in the human body, their effects, and their potential carcinogenic risks. He also offers his perspective on how we can approach meat curing—and eating—more thoughtfully. Drawing on the lessons of the failed nitrite regulation in France, he advocates for a more reflective approach to knowledge production: one that prioritises deep understanding over the relentless pursuit of data – a proposition that is relevant far beyond the example of meat curing.

For additional resources and a deeper exploration of Jérôme’s work and views, please visit:

https://www.i2bc.paris-saclay.fr/equipe-oxidative-stress-and-detoxication/

https://theconversation.com/profiles/jerome-santolini-513994/articles

Further reading:

Coudray, G. (2023). Nitrites dans la charcuterie: Le scandale. New York: HarperCollins.

Coudray, G. (2021). Who Poisoned Your Bacon? The Dangerous History of Meat Additives. London: Icon Books .

Santolini, Jérôme. (2023). Additifs nitrés dans les charcuteries : quelle information scientifique pour quelle politique publique ?

Santolini, Jérôme; Steinberger, Julia. (2022). La désobéissance civile des scientifiques est justifiée sur les plans éthique et pragmatique. Le Monde.

Scientifiques en rébellion. (2024). Sortir des labos pour défendre le vivant. Paris: SeuilLibelle.

Stengers, I. (2015). In catastrophic times: Resisting the coming barbarism. London: Open Humanities Press.

Beyond the Fix is brought to you by Critical Scientists Switzerland, an independent network of scientists. It is made possible by the Stiftung Mercator Schweiz and produced by Podcastschmiede. Host: Thomas Kobel. Music: Mich Gerber.

If you enjoy the podcast and would like to hear more episodes, please consider supporting our work.

In this episode we look at ‘green growth’, the idea that the problems of our current economy can be solved with green technologies while continuing to grow the economy. Our guest, Prof. Dr. Julia Steinberger, Professor of Ecological Economics at the University of Lausanne, talks about the differences between ecological and environmental economics, and more generally about the problems with dominant economics. We explore the problems with the idea that growth can be sustained if only technologies change, discuss issues of decoupling or the rebound effect, and ultimately the need to address the neoliberal strategies behind many current policies. Julia explains alternative economic perspectives such as degrowth and postgrowth, which are based on actual human needs and planetary boundaries. She talks about one of her key research projects, 'Living Well Within Limits', which demonstrates the viability of such a needs-based and well-being-centred perspective, and the implications for transformative pathways beyond green growth

For additional resources and a deeper exploration of Julia’s work and views, please visit:

https://www.unil.ch/gse/fr/home/menuinst/vie-facultaire/promotions--nominations/steinberger-julia.html

https://jksteinberger.medium.com/

Further reading:

• Steinberger, J., Guerin, G., Hofferberth, E., & Pirgmaier, E. (2024). Democratizing provisioning systems: A prerequisite for living well within limits. Sustainability: Science, Practice and Policy, 20(1), 2401186.
• Keen, S. (2011). Debunking Economics - The Naked Emperor Dethroned?
• Ayres, R. U., van den Bergh, J. C. J. M., Lindenberger, D., & Warr, B. (2013). The underestimated contribution of energy to economic growth. Structural Change and Economic Dynamics, 27, 79–88.

Beyond the Fix is brought to you by Critical Scientists Switzerland, an independent network of scientists. It is made possible by the Stiftung Mercator Schweiz and produced by Podcastschmiede. Host: Thomas Kobel. Music: Mich Gerber.

If you enjoy the podcast and would like to hear more episodes, please consider supporting our work.