We weren’t sure when we set out to do this episode what would happen if we tried to ask one question – “Why run?” – with two entirely different meanings: Why run physically? And why run for political office?

But as it turned out, these conversations all came together as one big story about willed perseverance, tricky relationships, and pushing yourself publicly even when you know you might very well lose . . . because maybe you’ll win. Or at least learn something.

Our helpers for this episode are NPR host and author of The Incomplete Book of Running, Peter Sagal, Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, and Alice’s neighbor, friend, and boss, Chuck Grigsby. These are three incredible people with so much individual and combined wisdom. We feel truly fortunate to have spent time in dialogue with them.

This episode also includes particularly inspired music from our producer Mike Teager, who is a runner and who also volunteers as a government appointee as chair of the ethics board in the town where he lives, West Seneca, New York. We went down a lot of different trails in this episode, and the solo saxophone musings from Mike capture the struggle and the energy of the human voices included in this episode, pulling our individual runs into a collaborative movement.

Please give it a try, and tell us what you think. You can write to us at jatqpod@michigoose.com.

Just a reminder that you can listen to the whole episode for free. But if you want to hear more of our conversations with the helpers, subscribe to our Tangent Tier for just $5/month and gain access to all the raw, long-form conversations. If you do so, you'll see how hard it is for us to choose material to pull to the main pod!

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Alice Dreger, creator and host
Michael Teager, producer and musician