How could you love a rat?

That’s a question I’ve gotten from people who discover that I have spent two days weeping over a pet rat dying. I get it; I never would have thought I would have it in me to love a small rodent that has – let’s face it – been an enemy of humanity for time immemorial.

But this episode isn’t just about my furry little friends! Sure, we start off with an interview with my now-22-year-old son Kepler Domurat-Sousa to ask him what it was like growing up with pet rats. He and I tell the amusing story of how he ended up sleeping in a cardboard box in the living room with Treacle the Slob and Truffle the Genius.

But from there, we expand outward with two more helpers.

My friend Dan Savage joins us to explore the problem of loving a human “rat.” What has Dan learned from his decades of work as the premier sex advice columnist in terms of the managing relationships with jerks, or managing friendships with besties who are dating jerks?

And we’re joined by another friend, sex researcher Paul Vasey, who talks with us about why his research on Japanese macaques showed up in the Weekly World News under the headline “Lesbian Monkey Shocker!”

Love is a many splendored thing on this episode.

Just a reminder that you can listen to the whole episode for free. But if you want to hear more of our conversations with the helpers, subscribe to our Tangent Tier for just $5/month and gain access to all the raw, long-form conversations. If you do so, you’ll see how hard it is for us to choose material to pull to the main pod!

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Alice Dreger, creator and host
Michael Teager, producer and musician